Football Special

[ReverendFozz]

I wasnt around to ever see the original Football Special, but enough to know, it was used to move people around easier.

I have read a wikipedia article on The Football Special and was interested to find this

Call for return of football specials

At a transport security conference in London on 14 February 2007, the deputy head of British Transport Police, Deputy Chief Constable, Andy Trotter, called for re-introduction of the Football Specials, warning that fans were disrupting trains. Trotter said his resources were "being stretched by the pressure of herding growing numbers of fans around the country on match days. Even when services to match day hotspots such as London, Manchester and Liverpool pass off without arrests, non-football going passengers can be frightened or irritated by fans' behaviour". Adding that, "There is an argument for the football specials, the trains that take fans backwards and forwards, but that's a matter for the train operators." He said he would like to see fans taken off trains, "I would much prefer if there is something done not to have them coming on the system at all."[1]

British Transport Police welcome their return, a spokesperson saying "it gives us the chance to isolate the fans from other passengers".[2]

Virgin Trains, whose West Coast service covers 16 clubs, said reviving charted trains was hampered by a lack of spare carriages, unlike in British Rail days when there was spare and redundant stock. Great North Eastern Railway (GNER), which carries fans between London, Leeds and North East England, uses Middlesbrough F.C. stewards to help prevent trouble. GNER said that train timetables were specified by government and did not allow charters.[1]

The Football Supporters' Federation, said bringing back football specials was the right idea for the wrong reason. "If there was enough demand for a football special and it could be run at a certain time I think a lot of people would be happy with that. But we don't accept that a lot of football fans who go on trains are hooligans.

and also 2 Links as the page sources

http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,,2013179,00.html

AND

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1487085/Rail-firms-greet-football-specials-return.html

The Police and some TOCs seem to want a return to that, I was just thinking about it, would it ever be done in a way where a new TOC could be put together specially to cater for Football Specials.

An mad enough idea I had was to set up a new operator to move fans around, but promote it as a 'Party Train' so to speak, basically a Pub on wheels, but it would be good in a way that you could keep an on the majorty fans.

Would that ever get a green light, or would other TOC's, like Grand Central, Cross Country and East Coast have something to say about it???

 

[Flamingo]

Interesting idea. I can imagine the carriages now - Lots of long counters, not many seats, those that there are covered in plastic, and a floor that can be hosed clean.

I wouldn't work them if I was paid four times my salary, given 6 months a year paid leave, and free use of the bosses wife at weekends.

And I'm one of the braver TM's!

 

[dk1]

Most TOCs are on a nice earner with London based clubs & group travel these days. Trouble is there isnt the spare stock available for all the specials of yesteryear. Many trains ended up in a very poor state as sometimes happens with service trains after certain clubs fans travel today. It wasnt that long ago that these & other convenient trains for fans where 'dry'. Perhaps due to hampering TOCs catering profits that isnt so much the case anymore.

Odd you say this as today Preston where playing away to Norwich & Pathfinders ran a class 20/37 railtour from Crewe via Brum. Perfect for away fans as it arrived 13.55 departing 17.15. A steady stream of its passengers headed over towards Morrisons & Carrow Road.

Final score Norwich 1 - 1 Preston

 

[ReverendFozz]

Interesting idea. I can imagine the carriages now - Lots of long counters, not many seats, those that there are covered in plastic, and a floor that can be hosed clean.

I wouldn't work them if I was paid four times my salary, given 6 months a year paid leave, and free use of the bosses wife at weekends.

And I'm one of the braver TM's!

lol Flamingo

you could have a have a few Catering Carriages, with carriages either side for supporters, as for seats, under my idea, there would be a seat for everybody, as they would be make the seat reservations, and once all those seats were taken, nobody else would be allwed to get on it.

That way BTP can keep an eye on who is going where, and knowing where people at a given time.

I do imagine it would get rowdy and have some of Match Like atmosphere on the train, buses have done it for years, so why not trains, although I suspect Network Rail and BTP would have something to say about it
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Most TOCs are on a nice earner with London based clubs & group travel these days. Trouble is there isnt the spare stock available for all the specials of yesteryear. Many trains ended up in a very poor state as sometimes happens with service trains after certain clubs fans travel today. It wasnt that long ago that these & other convenient trains for fans where 'dry'. Perhaps due to hampering TOCs catering profits that isnt so much the case anymore.

Odd you say this as today Preston where playing away to Norwich & Pathfinders ran a class 20/37 railtour from Crewe via Brum. Perfect for away fans as it arrived 13.55 departing 17.15. A steady stream of its passengers headed over towards Morrisons & Carrow Road.

Final score Norwich 1 - 1 Preston

My Idea would be independent of the present TOC's, so yes the stock availability would be low, but sure carriages and engines could be leased from somewhere in the same way a car gets hired from anywhere...

Just a thought

 

[moggie]

London Midland recently ran specials from New St to Wembley for the Carling cup final so clearly where there's a demand the TOC will step up. On the whole in my experince from some years ago most fans are OK - plenty of loud banter but that's about it , especially since booze was banned - very sensible. Of course there will be exceptions - that why BTP travel on service trains on match days but how can you prevent people travelling toa match from using service trains? Not all travel from the same starting point to a common destination - I know I didn't. I don't think you could or should.

PS Cricket fans en masse can be pretty irritating and as for the the more extreme variety of train enthusiasts - I rest my case!!!

 

[JoeGJ1984]

I remember Wrexham and Shropshire actually added an extra train to their timetable when Shrewsbury Town played a promotion play-off at Wembley Stadium (they go through Wembley Stadium station). (I think it was around May 2009, at the end of the 2008/09 season). I wasn't on it, but I saw clips on YouTube that I presume were from that day and one of the trains was a DMU in Chiltern livery instead of the usual locomotive-hauled services. And with other Wembley events, W&S often added a stop at Wembley Stadium for the convenience of people going to the event. (I did use W&S to get to a Wembley event; it was the 2010 rugby league challenge cup final. They announced extra stops at Wembley at very short notice, but on different trains to the ones I had bought advance tickets for; if I had bought advance tickets for the ones that did stop at Wembley Stadium and they turned out not to stop at Wembley Stadium, it would have been very tight to get to the stadium/get the train home in time).

I think London Midland sometimes add a stop at Wembley Central station when there are events on at Wembley Stadium, and I think there must be other instances of extra trains running for sporting events; I've heard of "race trains" for horse racing events.

 

[jon0844]

I wouldn't work them if I was paid four times my salary, given 6 months a year paid leave, and free use of the bosses wife at weekends.

I can't see you being given six months leave...

 

[thewolf]

A couple of seasons ago when Wolves played at Forest, XC put a special on for the return journey - A Voyager straight from Nottingham to Wolves calling at New St along the way.

Problem was when we got to Derby we sat for about 30 minutes to allow the normal Nottingham - Brum service to pass us. My dad said that was always a problem when Football specials were common that they always seemed to end up getting held for slower services to overtake and such.

On the subject of those that run currently - LM run a couple of shuttles from New St to Witton (and return after the game) when Villa are at home...

 

[moonrakerz]

Most TOCs are on a nice earner with London based clubs & group travel these days.

It's a shame that they don't realise that there is money to be made on scheduled services too !
My experience of using Silverlink/Overground since Arsenal moved to the Emirates was "variable" to say the least. I've lost count of the times when there was a "big" game on and surprise, surprise - there were engineering works that weekend !!
I now get SWT to Waterloo (cheap advance tickets) and the No 4 bus from there (free!).

 

[Minilad]

If you want to see a proper football special then try St Pauli in Germany. Their "Fanladen" train will run to the last game of the season at Mainz. Around 1000 St Pauli fans travelling through the night. The train has bars and a Disco Coach. Most if not all of the 1000 will arrive in Mainz in various stages of drunkeness, and they will all have a wonderful time too

 

[strange6]

Interesting idea. I can imagine the carriages now - Lots of long counters, not many seats, those that there are covered in plastic, and a floor that can be hosed clean.

I wouldn't work them if I was paid four times my salary, given 6 months a year paid leave, and free use of the bosses wife at weekends.

And I'm one of the braver TM's!

hahahaha Flamingo, you're one of the best, mate! Would give my hind teeth to travel with you for the day!

 

[Ostrich]

I travelled occassionally on football specials back in the late ‘60’s. Birmingham City Supporters Club used to arrange Beau Brummie Away-Day Specials.
Motive power, from memory, was generally class 25 or 47.
But two incidents stick in my mind even now. A glass bottle shattering on the side of a class 47 in the adjacent platform, right by the head of a rail worker, as our special train pulled out of Norwich Thorpe (as it then was). And the side window in the corridor of the Mk.1 coach I was standing in being completely smashed in by rocks as we passed under a bridge somewhere in the southern suburbs of Leeds.
I don’t think society has improved that much in the last 40 years - I’d certainly share Flamingo’s sentiments if I were working in the industry today …….

 

[Failed Unit]

I remember CT used to put on Lincoln - Cardiff services when Lincoln reached the play-off finals. I don't that could happen now with EMT as it was easier to manage back then, the entire route was CTs. Saying that it is a little accademic now to be honest as the finals are back in London so for Lincoln if they ever get to such an event again, the load could probably be easily absorbed into the normal east coast London services.

 

[mindfeeder]

WSMR also stopped at Bicester North when Oxford United played away at Wrexham last season and it proved very popular. I do however remember coming back from Wrexham and the air conditioning breaking down in our coach! Shame I had to get off at Wolverhampton to change, it was a very pleasant journey.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

Trouble is there isnt the spare stock available for all the specials of yesteryear.

Since Virgin Trains stopped using their locomotive-hauled services, aren't they lots of Mk2 and 3 carriages in Virgin livery knocking about? (There should be plenty knocking about).

 

[MCR247]

The only spare (ie unallocated) MK3s are buffets and sleepers

Don't know about MK2s

 

[ainsworth74]

A load of the VT Mk3s went over to East Anglia, 100 Mk2s went to New Zealand and some further Mk3s have been converted into HST trailers for GC. To be honest there aren't that many spare vehicles of LHCS most of it is now with various people like Cargo D and DB. The stock is used a lot on rail tours, charters and on things like the Chiltern loco hauled runs so is actually quite well used. There just isn't dozens of carriages lying around in sidings around the country.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

WMSR have finished; this gives (I think) two or three spare sets of LHCS - what has happened/is happening to the ex-WMSR stock?

 

[ainsworth74]

Chiltern are using it and ATW might get some of it for the WAG express.

 

[cuccir]

When the mighty Barrow AFC gloriously defeated stevenage borough in last years FA trophy final at wembley, a special was run barrow to wembley, as detailed here. Unfortunately i wasn't travelling from barrow so couldn't make use of it.

I suspect the biggest issues are the lack of spare stock and the absence of free paths on many routes too.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The only spare (ie unallocated) MK3s are buffets and sleepers

Don't know about MK2s

So every coach has either a bar or a few beds for the overindulged. Sounds perfect for the purpose!

 

[jon0844]

FCC put on football specials at weekends for Arsenal, but they seem to run just after a normal service so seem pretty pointless - fans won't wait for a later train (presumably for fear of it being cancelled and they happily let a train go).

 

[Clip]

Chiltern put plenty of 'specials' on for all the big events at Wembley stadium where they spin them at Stadium station...

Mind you for club football it really would have to be competitively priced - why travel on a special from London to Manchester Liverpool or Newcastle if your paying more then getting the lovely advance tickets for around £15 each way.?

 

[ReverendFozz]

London Midland recently ran specials from New St to Wembley for the Carling cup final so clearly where there's a demand the TOC will step up. On the whole in my experince from some years ago most fans are OK - plenty of loud banter but that's about it , especially since booze was banned - very sensible. Of course there will be exceptions - that why BTP travel on service trains on match days but how can you prevent people travelling to a match from using service trains? Not all travel from the same starting point to a common destination - I know I didn't. I don't think you could or should.

PS Cricket fans en masse can be pretty irritating and as for the the more extreme variety of train enthusiasts - I rest my case!!!

Simple, you can't prevent people travelling on a scheduled service, it would be impossible to enforce, but then how did BTP and British Rail stop fans in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

I'm in the North East, and for example say Sunderland are playing away, you wouldn't be able to stop SAFC Fans from using GC or EC to travel to an away game in London, what you could do is encourage fans to use Special Services to take them away by coming up with some deal between the Club, BTP and Network Rail, so on a Special SAFC Fans Train or possibly two trains, you could have one Calling at Durham and Darlington down the ECML, to pick fans up, and if there was demand for two trains, have one calling at Seaham and Hartlepool down the Durham Coast, meeting the ECML at Northallerton. You would not need BTP on Board, Club Stewards could be deployed onto the trains, which I'm sure GNER/EC has done by having Middlesbrough Football Club Stewards for Boro and Leeds away games.

But yes, you couldnt stop fans from going there own way, the same can be said for organised supporters coaches, you can't really force a fan not to take National Express or Megabus if they want to do that

 

[steamybrian]

In the 1960s and 1970s BR ran many, many football specials running around using a variety of stock. As an avid Crystal Palace fan (lost again yesterday!!!) I used many football specials some of which used rarely used lines or stations (missed out on the original Wembley Staduim station) but did use some now closed stations such as Wadsley Bridge and Boothferry Park.
Today the TOCs show little interest in picking up this traffic or use the excuse that there is no spare stock..? Of course there is spare stock available but it is a matter of finding it or is it a fear that some holigans might smash it up.
For example when Manchester United played Crawley Town in the FA Cup I heard there were 25 coach loads of fans went by road by how many went by rail?. Did anyone consider running a through train formed of say 319 stock (dual voltage)? Surely there are 319s spare on Saturdays..?

 

[Oswyntail]

A very fond memory comes from visiting relatives in Leicester, on the day Forest were playing (I think) Wolves in a League Cup Final in the 70s/80s. As we arrived, a special passed through the station, at a reasonable pace, with Forest fans being good-naturedly rowdy, leaning out of the windows and shouting at everyone and everything that they were off to Wemberley. When we were returning, the same special crawled through northwards, in silence, with still, miserable faces at the windows. No prize for guessing the result.

 

[Nightrider]

Probably the furthest travelled were the whole host in number of Scottish football specials to Wembley for the England v Scotland game.
Aberdeen to London i'd guess was the furthest.

Another point long forgotten was shared football specials, if two local teams were playing say a 100 miles away against two different teams in cup competition ie league and non league teams, they would share a football special between them.

Can still remember Arsenal fans wandering on the line outside Euston after a draw in the FA cup semi final at Villa Park with Stoke City back in 1972.

 

[OuterDistant]

This documentary has a bit on football specials from the 70s... With a few shots of a Deltic to boot!

 

[ReverendFozz]

I know I previously said about running the ECML, and had a think about it, in my own little fantasy world, I would be pushing for re-instatement of the Leamside Line, and a Durham stop being at the Park and Ride in Durham and if there is a physical connection of the Sunderland-Newcastle and Leamside Lines at Follingsby, then build a parkway at Washington also for pick up's, use it for local services mostly, but also have for chartered services(football).

Basically use Leamside Line, then Stillington Branch and frieght lines(where possible), don't know about Signal Speed on Stillington and Freight lines, but it would keep trains, for the most part(whereever possible) off what is already a clogged up ECML, I realise this would probably not be very popular with some people with some people, just a thought though.

Could I ever see it happening, I don't think so, not today, tomorrow or next year, just a thought though

 

[dk1]

Winter Saturdays in the 70s rakes of MKIs trecked out up & down the country on Footex trains, come Summer they headed for Blackpool, Scarborough, Filey, Yarmouth, Llandudno & the West Country.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a shame that they don't realise that there is money to be made on scheduled services too !
My experience of using Silverlink/Overground since Arsenal moved to the Emirates was "variable" to say the least. I've lost count of the times when there was a "big" game on and surprise, surprise - there were engineering works that weekend !!
I now get SWT to Waterloo (cheap advance tickets) and the No 4 bus from there (free!).

NXEA have recently had excellent reports in the local press from Norwich City FC for their helpfullness & bargain fares offered to supporters.