Freight flows on the Stainmore, Eden Valley and Weardale routes

[driverd]

Hi all,

Following a recent trip to the area my interest has been sparked somewhat in the latter years of the above railways. I was just wondering if anyone could help with a few questions I had around the above. Broadly I'm talking about 1970 onwards - so:

1. Hartley Quarry - I can, so far, work out that this quarry remained open until the late 70s. I believe it was a limestone quarry. Trains would have had to access the quarry from the S&C at Appleby and then done a run around before heading up the Eden Valley railway to the quarry. But, where abouts did these trains go to? What wagons were used to convey limestone (was it limestone itself, or further processed to something else?), and does anyone have further details on the method of work at Appleby? It seems like lots of shunting would have been required, and due to the relatively short head shunt between the Eden Valley and the connecting line, I can't imagine especially long trains could be accommodated?

2. Warcop - I understand military trains ran here. I've never actually seen a military train in the flesh so, what was typically conveyed and on what vehicles (both in general terms and to Warcop specifically)? Where did these trains originate and how regularly did they run? When did this flow dry up?

3. Eastgate quarry - I understand this output cement that was conveyed in PCA wagons. However, does anyone know the frequency the line was used and any destinations the trains typically served?

4. Is there any other quarries/mines etc in the area that maintained a rail link into the 1970s-1990s (ie: after the closure of the rest of the railways in the North Pennine/Weardale area).

Many thanks to anyone who knows!

 

[Sun Chariot]

The Stainmore and Eden Valley Railways
Peter Walton
ISBN 9780860933069

The Eden Valley Railway
Robert Western
ISBN 9780853617358

Two excellent books (I have both) on the Stainmore and Eden Valley line: It's been years since I read them; my post is purely from memory:

Hartley Quarry had ceased rail-borne traffic before Stainmore line's closure.
During the 1950's, 4 wheel mineral wagons were used for the northeast-to-northwest freights; hauled (often also banked) by rugged J21 locos.

Warcop's camp survived long enough to see class 40 hauled troop trains, comprising Mk1 second class stock. Ad-hoc and based on when and where the soldiers performed in planned training / operations.
MoD's ordnance and sundries typically conveyed in 4-wheel wagons; VEA and VAA, VBA, VDA. I have seen photos of 25 haulage on that.

I regret I have no answer for point 3.

Other quarries: one that springs to mind, is the former quarry at Ribblehead. Early 1970s, the northbound station platform was demolished, to enable construction of a transfer siding for a nearby quarry.

 

[Albaman]

I don't have a copy but " Post War Boom and Bust - The Railway over the Stainmore Pass " by Chris Rowley might also be of interest.

 

[Magdalia]

Eastgate quarry - I understand this output cement that was conveyed in PCA wagons. However, does anyone know the frequency the line was used and any destinations the trains typically served?

Eastgate was Blue Circle cement to Tees Yard and ran until 1993. Here is a picture of the last train:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jason87030/32120070486/

37509 on the Eastgate branch, near Frosterley, with the last cement train from Eastgate on 17th March 1993

Is there any other quarries/mines etc in the area that maintained a rail link into the 1970s-1990s (ie: after the closure of the rest of the railways in the North Pennine/Weardale area).

Limestone Redmire to Redcar ran until 1992. This is now the Wensleydale Railway.

Further south is Rylstone near Grassington which is still going.

 

[geordieblue]

I was under the impression that rail traffic at Hartley did indeed continue into the 1970s? See: http://www.forgottenrelics.org/bridges/merrygill-viaduct/

This may be too late for your period but there were also regular coal workings on the Weardale branch in the early2010s - loaded from an opencast pit nearby and dispatched to power stations.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I was under the impression that rail traffic at Hartley did indeed continue into the 1970s?.

I stand corrected, you're right.

Hartley Quarry trains

Designed and developed by Codify Design Studio - codifydesign.com

www.stainmore150.co.uk

The book in post #2, has a photo of a former rail connection to the quarry; and a caption that it was disused; so I wonder if that one was an older route into the quarry complex.

 

[driverd]

Fantastic, thank you for all the replies so far.

I'm interested to hear more about MoD workings - where in particular would these trains usually head? Or was there no "usual" and more a case of operational need?

Further, regarding Hartley Quarry, would these loads typically head to a yard at Carlisle for sorting? After diesel-isation, does anyone know what stock would have been typical?

Thanks again for the wonderful info!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Warcop camp was also a logistics hub for the Army; military road (and off-road) vehicles being moved to & from the site, depending on where vehicles were needed by the Army.
Rail-moved vehicles were on "Warflat" and "Warwell" wagons.
Other ordnance (munitions, general Army sundries) would be transported in vans - VEA and longer-wheelbase VAA, VBA & VDA.

Troop trains were very much as-required: moving troops to a port of disembarking, for peacetime training manoeuvres, as an example.

 

[Magdalia]

Troop trains were very much as-required: moving troops to a port of disembarking, for peacetime training manoeuvres, as an example.

Two big battlegrounds for peacetime training were Salisbury Plain and Thetford Forest. For the latter the rail traffic was usually handled at Brandon.

 

[D6130]

The ranges on the moors above Warcop were also used as a major battle training ground and there are still red flags flying up there to warn walkers to stay away when artillery and tank firing is in progress. How often they are used nowadays I'm not sure, as the use of the ranges has been scaled back dramatically in recent years.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Two big battlegrounds for peacetime training were Salisbury Plain and Thetford Forest. For the latter the rail traffic was usually handled at Brandon.

Thanks. The book I mentioned in post #2, has a photo of a 40 for Warcop with 12 Mk1s. However, the photo caption didn't state where the troop train originated.

 

[Gloster]

Hurst’s Register of Closed Railways gives Warcop-Merrygill as having closed on 3 November 1975. Discovering Lost Railways by F.G.Cockman (*) says that the line still saw three Class 37 hauled stone trains a week when he visited, which would probably have been in the early 1970s.

The Appleby-Warcop section closed on 31 March 1989 according to Hurst. The last train ran on 16 March: it consisted of 31217 hauling two VEA loaded with ammunition with a VDA on each side as a barrier wagon. The ammunition was unloaded while the train waited so that nothing would be left behind and have to be collected later. (This from the Cumbrian Railways Association’s Journal.)

I think that one main traffic was vehicles on various flats, Warwells and Warflats, some of which would be going to and from Ludgershall which was a major army vehicle depot. There would also be incoming ammunition in Vanfits, Vanwides and later air-braked vans.

* - A greatly enjoyed book when I was young, so I was not pleased when my mother disposed of it. Much later I found another copy, but I had to find it among the several hundred books in my living room/bookstore.

 

[Helvellyn]

The A66 at Warcop still has tank crossing warning signs but I presume any are brought in by lorry these days. The ranges are very much still in use and it's one of the trickier areas to try and dual carriageway.

 

[LMS 4F]

Fantastic, thank you for all the replies so far.

I'm interested to hear more about MoD workings - where in particular would these trains usually head? Or was there no "usual" and more a case of operational need?

Further, regarding Hartley Quarry, would these loads typically head to a yard at Carlisle for sorting? After diesel-isation, does anyone know what stock would have been typical?

Thanks again for the wonderful info!

In 1965 I spent time at Castlemartin,Pembrokeshire, and we looked after the Centurion Tanks used by TA regiments for their annual range firing. The ammunition came in train loads of vans into Pembroke station yard.
it was one of our jobs to unload the vans by hand, no pallets in those days, and get them up to the camp. We were told it had to be don ASAP as the Army would be charged if it wasn’t done within I believe 24 hours. That may well have been a tall tale but in any case it was hard work as each round of 20pdr ammo weighed about 100lb in its protective sleeve and it was about 90 to load a Bedford Three ton wagon up to the top of the side.

 

[Spaceflower]

The Weardale railway reopened for freight briefly at some point in the noughties (or even later), 2013 (ish) to convey coal from an opencast site near Wolsingham. All I can remember was that it was a Colas 66 hauled train. Other members will no doubt have more detailed information.....

 

[LMS 4F]

The ranges on the moors above Warcop were also used as a major battle training ground and there are still red flags flying up there to warn walkers to stay away when artillery and tank firing is in progress. How often they are used nowadays I'm not sure, as the use of the ranges has been scaled back dramatically in recent years.

I have fired on the ranges at Warcop but don’t recall how ammo got there. We drove from Tidworth, Hampshire, to live under canvas in November trainning for deployment to Sarawak in January. A lot of imagination was required.

 

[marsker]

Limestone Redmire to Redcar ran until 1992. This is now the Wensleydale Railway.

These workings involved a long propelling movement at Northallerton. The empties reversed on the up slow just south of the station and then were propelled over the crossover to the down main and along the down main to the Castle Hills Spur. The trains acrried a brake van both for thismovement and to assist with the traincrew worked level crossings on the Wensleydale branch.
I went on a special organised by BR locally, probably very late 80's from Middlesbrough to Redmaire composed of 3x3-car class 108 DMUs. This was worked in the same manner at Northallerton with the driver remaining in the back cab.
In the rturn direction, the propelling movement was from the Castle Hills spur to the down platform at Northallerton station.

Hi all,

Following a recent trip to the area my interest has been sparked somewhat in the latter years of the above railways. I was just wondering if anyone could help with a few questions I had around the above. Broadly I'm talking about 1970 onwards - so:

1. Hartley Quarry - I can, so far, work out that this quarry remained open until the late 70s. I believe it was a limestone quarry. Trains would have had to access the quarry from the S&C at Appleby and then done a run around before heading up the Eden Valley railway to the quarry. But, where abouts did these trains go to? What wagons were used to convey limestone (was it limestone itself, or further processed to something else?), and does anyone have further details on the method of work at Appleby? It seems like lots of shunting would have been required, and due to the relatively short head shunt between the Eden Valley and the connecting line, I can't imagine especially long trains could be accommodated?

2. Warcop - I understand military trains ran here. I've never actually seen a military train in the flesh so, what was typically conveyed and on what vehicles (both in general terms and to Warcop specifically)? Where did these trains originate and how regularly did they run? When did this flow dry up?

3. Eastgate quarry - I understand this output cement that was conveyed in PCA wagons. However, does anyone know the frequency the line was used and any destinations the trains typically served?

4. Is there any other quarries/mines etc in the area that maintained a rail link into the 1970s-1990s (ie: after the closure of the rest of the railways in the North Pennine/Weardale area).

Many thanks to anyone who knows!

I attach a picture of shunting at the quarry which I think I took in early 1966. As far as I know, at Appleby, the train was merely propelled over the link between the 2 stations.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I have fired on the ranges at Warcop but don’t recall how ammo got there. We drove from Tidworth, Hampshire, to live under canvas in November trainning for deployment to Sarawak in January. A lot of imagination was required.

Lomgmoor ranges was my first thought. I'm assuming there's a really obvious reason why it wasn't used?

 

[Gloster]

There are a few photos on Flickr. Try searching Warcop goods, Warcop freight and Merrygill .

 

[LMS 4F]

Lomgmoor ranges was my first thought. I'm assuming there's a really obvious reason why it wasn't used?

I’m not aware of a range at Longmoor which Armoured vehicles could use. Even at Warcop some of the high velocity rounds couldn’t be fired due to the large danger area required. Even where it could be used, Lulworth, there were limits on the number of days per month.

 

[Gloster]

A bit of searching suggests that ammunition being sent to Warcop would most likely come from either Kineton or Longtown; in the case of the latter one would expect it to come by road as it is less than forty miles, but the Army did love putting stuff on rail. There were a number of other depots, but most disappeared around the end of conscription: only Bramley lasted until 1978.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I’m not aware of a range at Longmoor which Armoured vehicles could use. Even at Warcop some of the high velocity rounds couldn’t be fired due to the large danger area required. Even where it could be used, Lulworth, there were limits on the number of days per month.

Good point. Range Two is light arms; and I only once saw the heavy artillery range in use (2013) - visible from the road near Greatham village.
Sorry mods - I'm probably veering off topic.

 

[D6130]

On quite a few occasions in the 1970s - and particularly in the 1980s - the Carlisle New Yard to Warcop freight trip was worked by Scottish Region class 26 or 27 locos which had ended up at Carlisle. On the outward journey it served Warcop MOD and - on the return - Newbiggin British Gypsum sidings....nowadays known as Kirkby Thore.

 

[xotGD]

The Weardale railway reopened for freight briefly at some point in the noughties (or even later), 2013 (ish) to convey coal from an opencast site near Wolsingham. All I can remember was that it was a Colas 66 hauled train. Other members will no doubt have more detailed information.....

IIRC,the Coal trains mainly went to Ratcliffe Power Station. The loaded trains departed Wolsingham late morning, with the empties arriving late in the evening.

 

[driverd]

Thank you all for the replies. Its always interesting to hear people's experiences - and it surprises me how little there is in the way of photos online (especially during the diesel period), though, that said, I suppose before the days of smart phones, taking rail photography was somewhat more of a chore.

 

[Ploughman]

I have fired on the ranges at Warcop but don’t recall how ammo got there. We drove from Tidworth, Hampshire, to live under canvas in November trainning for deployment to Sarawak in January. A lot of imagination was required.

I also Drove from Tidworth, 1981 and spent 2 weeks using Bellerby Ranges above Leyburn travelling over Stainmoor to Warcop daily.
We queried why so much travelling, but never answered, especially since we had he same standard ranges within a mile of our home camp at Perham Down Tidworth.

Anyway back to topic apologies.

 

[Gloster]

Thank you all for the replies. Its always interesting to hear people's experiences - and it surprises me how little there is in the way of photos online (especially during the diesel period), though, that said, I suppose before the days of smart phones, taking rail photography was somewhat more of a chore.

There was also the problem that obtaining information on goods trains was difficult. Getting hold of a Working Timetable or Trip Book was something that only railway employees living in the region could do with ease. Even with that few would know if the train was going to actually run on a specific day and, if it did, it might run early or late. I also suspect that many photographers in those days had nine to five jobs that required office attendance daily: not the working from home when you want that is common now.

While there was still steam, its lure might be enough for a photographer to chance it, but not for a diesel. And a lot of people stopped or cut back the photography for a few years after steam ended.

 

[D6130]

There was also the problem that obtaining information on goods trains was difficult. Getting hold of a Working Timetable or Trip Book was something that only railway employees living in the region could do with ease. Even with that few would know if the train was going to actually run on a specific day and, if it did, it might run early or late. I also suspect that many photographers in those days had nine to five jobs that required office attendance daily: not the working from home when you want that is common now.

While there was still steam, its lure might be enough for a photographer to chance it, but not for a diesel. And a lot of people stopped or cut back the photography for a few years after steam ended.

The late Carlisle-based railway photographer Peter J. Robinson took quite a few photos in the Eden Valley - including some of the Merrygill/Warcop trip - which I have seen in various books and magazine articles. I shall have to try and do a little research into this subject.

As a young child I often travelled by car with my parents over the A66 between Darlington and Penrith en route between my Dumfriesshire and Teesside grandparents at school holiday times and pre-school. I can remember at the age of three or four seeing steam-hauled freight trains in the vicinity of Stainmore summit and can remember the signalbox, loops and summit sign - then the highest point on the English rail network following the closure of the Princetown branch in 1955 - and a few years later seeing lots of condemned wagons stored on the closed single line section between Appleby and Kirkby Thore parallel to the A66.

However, my memories of my one and only trip on the line - at the front of a DMU from Penrith to Darlington with my mother and baby brother in December 1961 - are very vague. I wonder how many other forum members have travelled over the Stainmore line?

 

[Sun Chariot]

@D6130 wonderful memories, thanks for sharing. The fact that you've traversed Belah viaduct, makes me envious. Not that I was even born at that time...

 

[Cricketer8for9]

That travel was by car even in the 60s suggests that without freight the line was unlikely to survive.