Future Timetables

[Whiggism]

Hi guys, I was wondering prediction dates on when GTR particularly Southern timetables will see a return to pre Covid/ May 2018 services, such as the reintroduction of VIC-Sutton trains via Norbury and the return of the Epsom via Mitcham Junction services off peak.

 

[JonathanH]

Hi guys, I was wondering prediction dates on when GTR particularly Southern timetables will see a return to pre Covid/ May 2018 services, such as the reintroduction of VIC-Sutton trains via Norbury and the return of the Epsom via Mitcham Junction services off peak.

The working prediction is that they won't return to those timetables, as Southern is now a leaner operation, with less rolling stock, than it was when they ran.

 

[PGAT]

Hi guys, I was wondering prediction dates on when GTR particularly Southern timetables will see a return to pre Covid/ May 2018 services, such as the reintroduction of VIC-Sutton trains via Norbury and the return of the Epsom via Mitcham Junction services off peak.

Not in the foreseeable future. I’m not joking when I say potential decades

 

[30907]

Slightly less pessimistically, when (if) the Belmont turnback is built there will be a need for 2tph additional offpeak through Sutton, presumably but not necessarily replicating the present peak extras via Norbury. So maybe slightly fewer decades


(Of course, there could be a more complex recast of the SN timetable, but the net requirement remains.)

 

[devon_belle]

Similar to OP I was wondering if we will ever see a semi-fast service return to the Dorking line? Or indeed a Sunday service to Horsham...

 

[PGAT]

Well the Dorking semi-fasts had so much padding that they take about the same time as the stoppers. The frequency and carriage length are still unacceptable though

 

[devon_belle]

The frequency and carriage length are still unacceptable though

5 cars in the morning has been cosy...

1 train per hour to Horsham I can live with, if it was slightly quicker (and ran on a Saturday evening/Sunday).

I accept that patronage beyond Dorking (or, indeed, beyond Leatherhead) is fairly poor, but that is probably just because it is such a slow service to begin with. Put the through lines back in at Cheam!

 

[London Trains]

Well the Dorking semi-fasts had so much padding that they take about the same time as the stoppers.

If they ever come back, I would really hope they would change that - it would even benefit Southern to speed up the service as removing the padding would likely save a unit compared to the old timetable.

I accept that patronage beyond Dorking (or, indeed, beyond Leatherhead) is fairly poor, but that is probably just because it is such a slow service to begin with. Put the through lines back in at Cheam!

The through lines at Cheam will make no difference, the fast services need to stop at Cheam as it is busy enough to warrant the fasts stopping there.

The service was only so slow because it had so much padding, I reckon you could knock off 15 minutes easily without removing stops. Swapping the Boxhill and Westhumble stop to the Dorking terminator would also speed up the journey to Horsham.

 

[PGAT]

15 minutes easily seems excessive. Comparing what we have, the normal stoppers, compared to the limited fast services, only ~5 minutes are saved between Victoria and Sutton

 

[OneOfThe48]

I suspect when/if they get the extra money needed to run the services, they might return. If they don’t, they likely won’t.

Though does depend on if this route is a priority compared to their other similarly reduced ones.

Though as JonathanH says, they do have fewer trains now than they used to, so more will likely be needed if they wanted to run more services.

 

[devon_belle]

The through lines at Cheam will make no difference, the fast services need to stop at Cheam as it is busy enough to warrant the fasts stopping there.

Perhaps add the island platform as originally intended. Unlikely at the moment due to finances but it's the most logical place for it to me (or maybe reconfiguring Epsom for overtaking).

15 minutes easily seems excessive

Down trains are 1h21 to Horsham
Up trains are 1h33 from Horsham

Clearly there is some scope for significant savings, especially if stops are removed. Perhaps not at the Sutton end, though. If it wasn't for the interchange with the Tube at Balham, I would suggest dropping the Up train onto the fasts after Mitcham Eastfields.

 

[nw1]

Not in the foreseeable future. I’m not joking when I say potential decades

That does seem to be a very bold prediction - who knows what the state of the economy will be in, in 5 to 10 years time? Who knows what political party might be in power in 5-10 years time, and whether they are more pro-rail than the current government?

It's depressing indeed if we're to be stuck with the current hard times on the railway for "decades", it seems to imply prolonged economic hard times and reined-in public spending far in excess of anything we saw in any previous recessions. Particularly so for those of us now getting on a little bit who want to see a return to happier times before we pop off this mortal coil!