Suggestions for future use of Class 332s post-HEx

[reddragon]

Well the long term OOU 332 (014?) has seemingly vanished from OOC. That might answer the OPs question!

 

[JN114]

If there was any doubt to the poor condition of the 332s, in the past 2 weeks we’ve had:-

Units stood down for urgent checks following “items of concern” uncovered on a unit on exam - the whole fleet was checked in the course of about 8 hours and only 2 units actually demonstrated the same symptoms. All repaired within a couple of days.

Unit failure today between T2&3 and T5 (empty stock) which decimated the service on the Heathrow branch for both Crossrail and Heathrow Express - XR cancelling their T2&3-T4 shuttle services and HX having to run half-hourly for the entire morning. The failed unit still languishes with one of its brothers looking very sorry for itself in T5 having been pushed there. Very low speed recovery required overnight at some point in the next few days.

But I’m sure Porterbrook or Angel will want to spend millions buying the units and sorting all these endemic issues and placing them with another operator...

 

[Jonny]

If there was any doubt to the poor condition of the 332s, in the past 2 weeks we’ve had:-

Units stood down for urgent checks following “items of concern” uncovered on a unit on exam - the whole fleet was checked in the course of about 8 hours and only 2 units actually demonstrated the same symptoms. All repaired within a couple of days.

Unit failure today between T2&3 and T5 (empty stock) which decimated the service on the Heathrow branch for both Crossrail and Heathrow Express - XR cancelling their T2&3-T4 shuttle services and HX having to run half-hourly for the entire morning. The failed unit still languishes with one of its brothers looking very sorry for itself in T5 having been pushed there. Very low speed recovery required overnight at some point in the next few days.

But I’m sure Porterbrook or Angel will want to spend millions buying the units and sorting all these endemic issues and placing them with another operator...

I suspect that the owners of the Class 333s might well still be interested in the components and some spare shells... Frankly though, there are shorter odds of an intact (or 3 car as Class 318) Class 317 turning up at a new operator.

 

[Tobbes]

If the 332s are heading for scrap, I'd like to think that one (or some of one) would be donated to the NRM - they have an important story to tell about the early days of privatisation and the (very limited) places where a wholly private-finance solution was made to work - if only to help explain why everywhere else subsidy continues to be required.

 

[paulravuslante]

If there was any doubt to the poor condition of the 332s, in the past 2 weeks we’ve had:-

Units stood down for urgent checks following “items of concern” uncovered on a unit on exam - the whole fleet was checked in the course of about 8 hours and only 2 units actually demonstrated the same symptoms. All repaired within a couple of days.

Unit failure today between T2&3 and T5 (empty stock) which decimated the service on the Heathrow branch for both Crossrail and Heathrow Express - XR cancelling their T2&3-T4 shuttle services and HX having to run half-hourly for the entire morning. The failed unit still languishes with one of its brothers looking very sorry for itself in T5 having been pushed there. Very low speed recovery required overnight at some point in the next few days.

But I’m sure Porterbrook or Angel will want to spend millions buying the units and sorting all these endemic issues and placing them with another operator...

I was stuck behind the rescue of that failed unit last night. Held outside T2&3 for 15+ mins while that unit coupled to two others slowly exited the tunnel section at Heathrow. Must have taken all night to get it to the depot!

 

[JN114]

I was stuck behind the rescue of that failed unit last night. Held outside T2&3 for 15+ mins while that unit coupled to two others slowly exited the tunnel section at Heathrow. Must have taken all night to get it to the depot!

Got to Old Oak around 0130.

 

[paulravuslante]

Got to Old Oak around 0130.

It held me up on 2306 ex T2&3 so that’s at least an hour and a half it took to reach OOC.

 

[reddragon]

It held me up on 2306 ex T2&3 so that’s at least an hour and a half it took to reach OOC.

Your train is shown as 14L from Stockley Junction but the 332 move isn't on RTT

 

[paulravuslante]

Your train is shown as 14L from Stockley Junction but the 332 move isn't on RTT

It’s on there as 8Z32 2200 ex T5

 

[reddragon]

It’s on there as 8Z32 2200 ex T5

found it - that was no 99 mph EMU timing!!

 

[paulravuslante]

found it - that was no 99 mph EMU timing!!

Nope! Painfully slow

 

[The Prisoner]

Would Northern take the 332s when Heathrow Express/GWR have finished with them? Think I read somewhere that they could work with the 333s Northern already have?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Would Northern take the 332s when Heathrow Express/GWR have finished with them? Think I read somewhere that they could work with the 333s Northern already have?

Once HEx are finished with them, I doubt many would be serviceable. They're apparently in a right state.

 

[cactustwirly]

Would Northern take the 332s when Heathrow Express/GWR have finished with them? Think I read somewhere that they could work with the 333s Northern already have?

They would be expensive, as they're not fitted with TPWS, using ATP instead.
They're also not owned by a RoSco, so Northern would have to buy them off Heathrow Airport

 

[bluenoxid]

If they were priced right, they could be an option. However, the obfuscation on electrification and the lack of additional platforms and capacity on electrified lines in West Yorkshire is unlikely to justify further electrics. I doubt that there is any justification doing any DEMU or battery pack work.

Dependent on the parts market, there maybe some interest in them from the owner and the maintenance contract org for the 333’s

 

[Aictos]

Just scrap the Class 332s and use the parts that can be recycled to maintain the Class 333s which is more realistic.

 

[toby_farman]

There's also the displaced Heathrow Express Class 332 units that will be available now which comprises of 14 x 4 car trains (plus 5 additional coaches)

It's a shame the GWR contract for HEx wasn't agreed two years ago, Northern could have used the HEx332's to increase capacity on the Airedale Lines and ordered more 195's instead of 331's.

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but what about fitting TPWS equipment to them and using them alongside Northern 333s or sending them to somewhere on the network to replace some older EMUs?

How about fitting them with third rail and shortening them to replace some older southeastern branch line stock (2 car 466s which have to be replaced soon anyway because of disability laws)?

How about heavily refurbishing the 332 + 333 fleet and converting them into one class, then offering them to operaters as a temporary solution because of delays in new rolling stock?

How about a 332/333 FLEX train?

Has anybody got any other ideas? I'd love to hear them!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Pedantic question, but I know the 332s were built in Spain, but does anyone know whether the design is British or Spanish? I know NSE had their class 331 Networker they were going to build which turned into the 332, so are they an old BR design then?

 

[toby_farman]

Pedantic question, but I know the 332s were built in Spain, but does anyone know whether the design is British or Spanish? I know NSE had their class 331 Networker they were going to build which turned into the 332, so are they an old BR design then?

Pretty sure they're a joint German + spanish design (no evidence)

 

[JonathanH]

How about fitting them with third rail and shortening them to replace some older southeastern branch line stock (2 car 466s which have to be replaced soon anyway because of disability laws

466s do not have to be replaced soon. There is a derogation which allows them to continue to be used so long as they are coupled to a PRM-modified 465.

 

[JN114]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but what about fitting TPWS equipment to them and using them alongside Northern 333s or sending them to somewhere on the network to replace some older EMUs?

How about fitting them with third rail and shortening them to replace some older southeastern branch line stock (2 car 466s which have to be replaced soon anyway because of disability laws)?

How about heavily refurbishing the 332 + 333 fleet and converting them into one class, then offering them to operaters as a temporary solution because of delays in new rolling stock?

How about a 332/333 FLEX train?

Has anybody got any other ideas? I'd love to hear them!

Not economically viable.

The ROSCOs are already storing off-leased EMU stock up and down the country in the hope an operator wants them. Stock they already own and is already fit to operate on the railway network somewhere other than Paddington - Heathrow. I’ll ask what I ask every single time this is brought up - why are they going to put their hands in the pockets and buy the units off Heathrow? Put their hands in their pockets and pay for overhauls and TPWS and new interiors? When they can just break out some 319s or 317s which are just as capable and don’t need a tenth the money spending on them?

 

[toby_farman]

466s do not have to be replaced soon. There is a derogation which allows them to continue to be used so long as they are coupled to a PRM-modified 465.

That means making a 6 carriage train to run on branches.... What's the point in that?

 

[JonathanH]

That means making a 6 carriage train to run on branches.... What's the point in that?

No it doesn't. It means you run a 4-car 465 on the Sheerness branch (2 needed) and Bromley North branch (1 needed). This is not a hardship - it just means that three other services are shortened. The 466s remain in use on other Metro services.

I'm not sure it is the kind of thing which is going to prompt a big rebuild of 332s to make some new 2-car trains.

 

[toby_farman]

No it doesn't. It means you run a 4-car 465 on the Sheerness branch (2 needed) and Bromley North branch (1 needed). This is not a hardship - it just means that three other services are shortened. The 466s remain in use on other Metro services.

I'm not sure it is the kind of thing which is going to prompt a big rebuild of 332s to make some new 2-car trains.

What do you think of a FLEX 332 that's Bi-mode?

 

[JonathanH]

What do you think of a FLEX 332 that's Bi-mode?

Unnecessary.

As people have pointed out, Porterbrook are looking at options for units they already own and I guess the other ROSCOs will likely be doing the same.

The owners of the 332s are not going to be looking at a massive rebuild of their trains themselves when there is nowhere they are earmarked to be used.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

That means making a 6 carriage train to run on branches.... What's the point in that?

No they won’t.

As I understand it, the branches will be 375/3 (Maidstone West ways and Sheerness) and the 466 on the Bromley North shuttle will just have it’s toilet locked so you can’t have accusations of it not being handicapped friendly.

 

[JN114]

The owners of the 332s are not going to be looking at a massive rebuild of their trains themselves when there is nowhere they are earmarked to be used.

The owners of the 332s are Heathrow Airport; and have no interest or incentive to contribute to the wider railway network that isn’t funnelling passengers into their airport.

 

[swt_passenger]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but what about fitting TPWS equipment to them and using them alongside Northern 333s or sending them to somewhere on the network to replace some older EMUs?

How about fitting them with third rail and shortening them to replace some older southeastern branch line stock (2 car 466s which have to be replaced soon anyway because of disability laws)?

How about heavily refurbishing the 332 + 333 fleet and converting them into one class, then offering them to operaters as a temporary solution because of delays in new rolling stock?

How about a 332/333 FLEX train?

Has anybody got any other ideas? I'd love to hear them!

You could always try reading this thread from the start. I doubt there’ll be anything you can think of that hasn’t already been mentioned...

 

[Energy]

332 flex wouldn't be great, they're are only 14 units so conversion cost will be high and the 350/2 flex will be available which will be better

 

[D365]

I don't know why there's an obsession with "donating" the 332s to Northern. If they need more electric units, they'll order another 331 batch.