Gatwick Airport lines

[infobleep]

I've noticed at Gatwick Airport during peak rush hour that going south towards Lewes; Brighton or Hove, trains I've been on make use of either platforms 5 or 7. However going northwards in peak rush hour from South of Gatwick Airport they only seem to use platform 4. Is that correct?

What platforms do trains from Horsham and the Arun line use when heading north and south. At least platforms 2 and 3 are bidirectional. I know the Reading trains mostly use platform 2 now. I think they might use platform 3 once on Sunday mornings but that's not peak rush hour.

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[ushawk]

I've noticed at Gatwick Airport during peak rush hour that going south towards Lewes; Brighton or Hove, trains I've been on make use of either platforms 5 or 7. However going northwards in peak rush hour from South of Gatwick Airport they only seem to use platform 4. Is that correct?

What platforms do trains from Horsham and the Arun line use when heading north and south. At least platforms 2 and 3 are bidirectional. I know the Reading trains mostly use platform 2 now. I think they might use platform 3 once on Sunday mornings but that's not peak rush hour.

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Yes, P4 is always used as the fast line services (usually fast to East Croydon). P6 gets used for the Gat Ex instead of cutting across all the lines to access the up fast. Arun Valley services use P3 but can use P2, and its the same with the FGW services.

 

[Stats]

. P6 gets used for the Gat Ex instead of cutting across all the lines to access the up fast..

only off-peak. During the peaks GatEx services not from/to Brighton mostly use platforms 1 to 3.

 

[talldave]

only off-peak. During the peaks GatEx services not from/to Brighton mostly use platforms 1 to 3.

Not since platform 7 opened.

 

[infobleep]

Are more trains run south in the evening? Surely if only one platform is needed north in the morning peak, why are two needed in evening?

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[starlightEXPRESS]

Now that the new platform at Gatwick is open, will FGW increase their services to Reading, or will the new capacity be used for other services?

 

[Timothy Turtle]

Now that the new platform at Gatwick is open, will FGW increase their services to Reading, or will the new capacity be used for other services?

The intention was to use the spare capacity for a half-hourly Reading service but, as far as I know, there are no definite plans for this.

I doubt any other routes through Gatwick could increase frequency due to other capacity pinch points on the Brighton line (e.g. East Croydon, Redhill and the two track section south of Balcombe Tunnel Junction)

 

[swt_passenger]

Now that the new platform at Gatwick is open, will FGW increase their services to Reading, or will the new capacity be used for other services?

The service extension will be dependent on suitable stock becoming available. Realistically, this will only happen once Thames Valley route electrification is complete and new or cascaded EMUs start releasing 165s or 166s from those routes.

 

[Surreyman]

The service extension will be dependent on suitable stock becoming available. Realistically, this will only happen once Thames Valley route electrification is complete and new or cascaded EMUs start releasing 165s or 166s from those routes.

I was under the impression that they required the new platform at Redhill to be built first?

 

[infobleep]

They appear to be doing something where the old parcel depot is but that can't have any barring on the North Downs lime as it's the other side.

To be fair, bar Sundays there is every other hour at least a 2 an hourl service, just that one takes for ever and stops at Redhill. Use to run the slow every hour! I guess they reduced it to use rolling stock elsewhere.

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[swt_passenger]

I was under the impression that they required the new platform at Redhill to be built first?

Yes they will do. That is another valid reason why the 2 tph won't happen anytime soon.

 

[Stats]

Not since platform 7 opened.

Sorry, but they still serve platforms 1-3 in the peaks since Platform 7 opened.

In the am peak GatEx services terminating Gatwick between 0730 and 0803 terminate in platform 3.

In the PM peak, two services continue to Three Bridges serving platform 3, the 1735, 1805, 1820, 1835, 1850 and 1905 start from platforms 1 or 2. Between 1730 and 1945 only the 1750 starts from platforms 5/6.

 

[Minstral25]

Yes they will do. That is another valid reason why the 2 tph won't happen anytime soon.

Platform 0 is provisionally scheduled in Dec 2017, so that would point to May 2018 for extra trains to Gatwick, when there should be spare Thames Turbo's.

 

[infobleep]

Sorry, but they still serve platforms 1-3 in the peaks since Platform 7 opened.

In the am peak GatEx services terminating Gatwick between 0730 and 0803 terminate in platform 3.

In the PM peak, two services continue to Three Bridges serving platform 3, the 1735, 1805, 1820, 1835, 1850 and 1905 start from platforms 1 or 2. Between 1730 and 1945 only the 1750 starts from platforms 5/6.

That is fascinating. So during the peaks there they have to cross some or all the slow and fast lines to head north or to terminate. The very reason they built the extra platform to avoid this. I'm sure it's the best option but it's interesting none the less.

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[Aictos]

Platform 0 is provisionally scheduled in Dec 2017, so that would point to May 2018 for extra trains to Gatwick, when there should be spare Thames Turbo's.

Wouldn't it just be simpler to just extend the existing 3rd rail though the diesel island at both ends of the North Downs line and allow EMUs to replace the Turbos which could go elsewhere, seems daft to have half the route electrified with a chunk in the middle missing.....

 

[OxtedL]

That is fascinating. So during the peaks there they have to cross some or all the slow and fast lines to head north or to terminate. The very reason they built the extra platform to avoid this. I'm sure it's the best option but it's interesting none the less.

I think that a couple of those might be moves to/from sidings, although I could be wrong as it's a while since I looked at this.

But certainly it's not unexpected that GatEx still have to use the slow side - there hasn't been a timetable change since the new platform was introduced. Main line routes may still need 3 fast platforms to run the peak service, and GatEx still have a background requirement for 2 platforms, so you can see where the arithmetic breaks down.

Expect more shuffling at future timetable changes to make best use of capacity.

 

[swt_passenger]

A 'realtimetrains' query shows the vast majority of GatEx over the course of a whole day use 5 and 6. But with the transition from a terminating timetable to through running to/from Brighton in both peaks there has to be a way of taking some down services to sidings in the morning, and starting some up services from sidings in the evening. There's no other way of doing it surely?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...0/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GX

 

[OxtedL]

Wouldn't it just be simpler to just extend the existing 3rd rail though the diesel island at both ends of the North Downs line and allow EMUs to replace the Turbos which could go elsewhere, seems daft to have half the route electrified with a chunk in the middle missing.....

Whilst it is awkward to have it as a diesel island, there are a variety of reasons why it might be hard to get rid of.

We know that new third rail installations are likely to be quite expensive (based on quotes for e.g. Wrexham-Bidston). The trains that run it are currently quite short, and because there are diesel trains available to run it from the Reading area, there perhaps isn't a very good business case to electrify it. Add into a current lack of any electric trains that could run it and it becomes rather difficult.

There are a few game changers (Reading, GW electrification, EMU cascades,...) developing around the area though, so I think we should expect some more serious proposals for electrification of the line to surface within the next decade.

 

[Hophead]

That is fascinating. So during the peaks there they have to cross some or all the slow and fast lines to head north or to terminate. The very reason they built the extra platform to avoid this. I'm sure it's the best option but it's interesting none the less.

These (trains to London) are timed to run parallel with down Arun Valley fasts (which need to cross fast to slow either at Gatwick or Three Bridges), so there's no real impact on capacity.

Well, that's the theory, anyway.....

 

[infobleep]

These (trains to London) are timed to run parallel with down Arun Valley fasts (which need to cross fast to slow either at Gatwick or Three Bridges), so there's no real impact on capacity.

Well, that's the theory, anyway.....

Given that the Gatwick Expresses run every 15 minutes, it's amazing how they can timetable the Arun trains to that, given those need to make junctions and other connections elsewhere.

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[Minstral25]

These (trains to London) are timed to run parallel with down Arun Valley fasts (which need to cross fast to slow either at Gatwick or Three Bridges), so there's no real impact on capacity.

Well, that's the theory, anyway.....

There are several morning peak GatEx to Gatwick that run across at Stoats Nest and down through Redhill on the slows. They cross Stoats at same time Redhill to London fasts cross Stoats Nest to avoid conflicts.

 

[Surreyman]

Whilst it is awkward to have it as a diesel island, there are a variety of reasons why it might be hard to get rid of.

We know that new third rail installations are likely to be quite expensive (based on quotes for e.g. Wrexham-Bidston). The trains that run it are currently quite short, and because there are diesel trains available to run it from the Reading area, there perhaps isn't a very good business case to electrify it. Add into a current lack of any electric trains that could run it and it becomes rather difficult.

There are a few game changers (Reading, GW electrification, EMU cascades,...) developing around the area though, so I think we should expect some more serious proposals for electrification of the line to surface within the next decade.

Network Rails 2009 Electrification plan, details lines/routes on a cost/benefit basis, I can't remember if the North Downs line even gets a mention, so it's certainly a long way down the priority list.
I use the line every couple of weeks for the last 20 years and the frequency/train formation is about right for the passenger numbers.

 

[swt_passenger]

Network Rails 2009 Electrification plan, details lines/routes on a cost/benefit basis, I can't remember if the North Downs line even gets a mention, so it's certainly a long way down the priority list.
I use the line every couple of weeks for the last 20 years and the frequency/train formation is about right for the passenger numbers.

It isn't mentioned in the section of 'best performing' Cat A (passenger service) projects. Only Tier 1 and 2 (of 6) were taken to the business case appraisal stage.

Later in the document they also list every passenger route considered with the 'Tier number' alongside - on a scale of 1 to 6, 1 being best case, the North Downs route is only a 4.

Interestingly at that point (2009) the North Downs route was unambiguously stated as a candidate to be electrified with DC third rail.