GHA Coaches and Network Warrington bus wars

[northwichcat]

Last year GHA registered a 45 Northwich-Warrington bus service scheduled to run 5 minutes ahead of the Network Warrington 45/46 service. They got debranded ex-Go-Ahead North East buses to run the route which weren't repainted in to their corporate livery e.g. https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7517/15877704332_11c6f70a52_b.jpg so at first glance they could be mistaken for a Network Warrington bus, with Network Warrington using red buses.

In January Network Warrington revised their bus times so that they ran 5 minutes ahead of the GHA Coaches service.

From May GHA Coaches will run their service 5 minutes ahead of the Network Warrington service again. They will also start running a 16 Warrington Interchange to Dallam via Warrington Hospital bus - replicating another Network Warrington route.

 

[185]

Shame. As much as I like them, Warrington seem to be getting greedy - fare from Alty just to Warburton Village was around £3.40 last week. Whilst on their bus, noticed adverts for their family day saver - way over £11!

I worry for WBT as a company - they do pay decent wages for drivers, but the balance they should be striking between attractive fares and profitable routes seems beyond them. Their 'drop the fares quick, there's competition' then 'right... stick the fares up' just gets passengers backs up.

I reckon GHA will be far more formidable than Bennetts.

 

[northwichcat]

fare from Alty just to Warburton Village was around £3.40 last week. Whilst on their bus

You'd actually pay something like that for an equivalent length journey on the GHA Coaches 88 route. Although they have a £5 day ticket opposed to Network Warrington's £5.50 one and GHA's weekly ticket is cheaper to and covers a larger area.

If GHA are interested in serving Warrington I don't know why they didn't register an Altrincham-Warrington route when Warrington Coachways withdrew their service, given GHA already have two bus routes serving Altrincham.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Not forgetting Fairbrothers compete in the Town aswell including on the 16, Haltons 62 is also getting improved at the end of the month as there will be a 62A going via Dersbury in the Peak making a half hourly Service in Peak Times

 

[northwichcat]

New 45 GHA timetable:

Northwich to Warrington services will depart at xx:30 (5 minutes ahead of the Network Warrington service) but only between the hours of 08:30 and 16:30. They'll also be Northwich to Great Budworth services at 17:40 and 18:40.

The Warrington-Northwich service will depart at xx:35 (again 5 minutes ahead of the Network Warrington service) but with the first bus at 08:35 and the last bus at 15:35. Given the 16:40 Network Warrington Warrington-Northwich is a route 46 service I'm surprised GHA aren't running a 16:35 on the 45 route.

So anyone commuting on the 45 route working normal office hours will only be able to use the Network Warrington services if they want to use the same operator in both directions.

 

[Statto]

You'd actually pay something like that for an equivalent length journey on the GHA Coaches 88 route. Although they have a £5 day ticket opposed to Network Warrington's £5.50 one and GHA's weekly ticket is cheaper to and covers a larger area.

If GHA are interested in serving Warrington I don't know why they didn't register an Altrincham-Warrington route when Warrington Coachways withdrew their service, given GHA already have two bus routes serving Altrincham.

Even Arriva are better value for Day or longer period tickets, £5 day ticket for the whole of the North West[£6.50 for North West & Wales] the North West ticket includes Flint-Mold & Wrexham.

 

[ivanhoe]

There are no winners in this unnecessary battle. 2 carriers competing for the same custom and neither can hand on heart say this is beneficial to passengers. I do wish future governments would look at that 80's deregulation bill again, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[trawscymru27]

So anyone commuting on the 45 route working normal office hours will only be able to use the Network Warrington services if they want to use the same operator in both directions.

Not the case. There will be 45A journeys (via Comberbach) at 0620 and 0720 from Northwich and at 1635, 1735 and 1835 from Warrington. GHA's 45 will operate via Antrobus rather than Comberbach as per the Network Warrington service.

 

[northwichcat]

Not the case. There will be 45A journeys (via Comberbach) at 0620 and 0720 from Northwich and at 1635, 1735 and 1835 from Warrington. GHA's 45 will operate via Antrobus rather than Comberbach as per the Network Warrington service.

I didn't see the 45A service with it being listed as a separate service in Traveline.

Some peak time Network Warrington 45 services also serve both Comberbach and Antrobus opposed to just Antrobus.

 

[TUC]

There are no winners in this unnecessary battle. 2 carriers competing for the same custom and neither can hand on heart say this is beneficial to passengers. I do wish future governments would look at that 80's deregulation bill again, but I won't hold my breath.

The monopolies of the past in most places did not serve passengers well. Why should anyone have an inherdnt right to operate a town network without the threat of competitikn kerping them on their toes?

 

[ivanhoe]

The monopolies of the past in most places did not serve passengers well. Why should anyone have an inherdnt right to operate a town network without the threat of competitikn kerping them on their toes?

I quite agree in as much as NBC was an organisation that existed to extract as much monies as possible from Local Government. If you think that putting a spoiler route on is the most efficient way forward, then I expect that you probably don't care for passengers either. There should be in place some mechanisms that serve the needs of passengers. For example , why don't GHA leave a 30 minute difference in timetables so that passengers have a real choice. They won't because there is probably no demand. They are just trying to extract revenue away from the incumbent operator without providing any real choice for passengers. Keeping them on their toes indeed! Priceless!

 

[northwichcat]

For example , why don't GHA leave a 30 minute difference in timetables so that passengers have a real choice. They won't because there is probably no demand.

It seems unusual for there to be a bus war on a route where there was only an hourly frequency (and even less frequent for some intermediate villages.)

Like I previously said if they saw Warrington as a market why didn't they register a commercial Altrincham-Warrington service when Warrington Coachways had their operating licence revoked?

Alternatively, GHA could have extended the 27 Macclesfield-Knutsford service to Warrington and introduced new journey opportunities.

Either of those could have got them in to Warrington in a way that would have impressed passengers. I'm not sure running R reg Wright Renowns 5 minutes ahead of an existing service impressed many passengers, it probably confused a lot more than it impressed.

 

[Busaholic]

The logical conclusion to one operator running five minutes ahead of another on the same route, then the second one altering their times etc ad infinitum is, failing one operator getting wiped out, the journeys getting earlier and earlier in the day until they all run when nobody wants them e.g. 4 a.m. The great god of competition has a lot to answer for: the TC should have the power to get both operators together and say we're going to register your journeys fifteen minutes apart from each other, and if you want to argue over specific time slots we will swap them over after six months. But,hey, what place common sense in today's world?

 

[northwichcat]

the journeys getting earlier and earlier in the day until they all run when nobody wants them e.g. 4 a.m.

Not sure about that. I think after a few instances of moving the times to be 5 minutes earlier, the first bus will disappear and a later last bus will start.

 

[Y961 XBU]

the 16 will be the funny one when we have Fairbrothers, GHA and Network Warrington all fighting for it

 

[Statto]

It seems unusual for there to be a bus war on a route where there was only an hourly frequency (and even less frequent for some intermediate villages.)

Happened before, on a route in Stockport in the original GM Buses era which was/is[not sure if it's still running] hourly, another operator registered the route on an hourly frequency but timed 5 minutes before the main operator.

 

[ashworth]

Although the competition is on the 45 route it is the Network Warrington 46 route that really seems to have suffered especially on weekday afternoons. Anderton now gets a very sparse service back to Warrington for anyone visiting the canal and boat lift with long gaps without a bus and the last service of the day completely removed.

 

[northwichcat]

Although the competition is on the 45 route it is the Network Warrington 46 route that really seems to have suffered especially on weekday afternoons. Anderton now gets a very sparse service back to Warrington for anyone visiting the canal and boat lift with long gaps without a bus and the last service of the day completely removed.

The limited 46 service is down to the size of Anderton and council subsidies. Network Warrington have a contract with Cheshire West council for providing 5 services per day between Northwich and Anderton and fulfill that contract as part of their Northwich-Warrington service.

Arriva also provide run a Northwich-Winnington-Barnton bus every 20 minutes, so little Anderton with a few hundred residents isn't big enough to justify the Barnton bus being extended there or to justify all Warrington buses being routed that way.

It could be worse though. Look at what High Legh got left with after the hourly Warrington Coachways Altrincham to High Legh to Warrington service was cancelled: http://www.networkwarrington.co.uk/...78eda7f5ca5981062b5307c3deda79.1406118023.pdf

 

[gnolife]

It could be worse though. Look at what High Legh got left with after the hourly Warrington Coachways Altrincham to High Legh to Warrington service was cancelled: http://www.networkwarrington.co.uk/...78eda7f5ca5981062b5307c3deda79.1406118023.pdf

Misleading. High Legh also has route 289 Altrincham to Northwich running through. This provides roughly 1 bus every two hours if I recall correctly

 

[northwichcat]

Misleading. High Legh also has route 289 Altrincham to Northwich running through. This provides roughly 1 bus every two hours if I recall correctly

I was meaning High Legh had regular buses to Warrington (hourly) which got reduced to 4 return services per week.

The 289 (Northwich-Altrincham via Knutsford) was every 2.5 hours but when it was re-routed to go via High Legh it became every 2.75 hours.

 

[trawscymru27]

Timetables for the revised 45/45A and new 16/16A services are now on GHA Coaches' Facebook page.

Each of 16/16A runs hourly giving an overall half-hourly service between Warrington Interchange and Dallam. Not sure if GHA's promise of new buses and cheap fares will be enough considering Network Warrington operate every 15 minutes on this route (half-hourly on each of 16 and 16A).

 

[Y961 XBU]

Dont forget Fairbrothers 16 aswell thats every 15 mins and soon starting to run on Saturdays!

 

[northwichcat]

Are we seeing a repeat of the Stagecoach vs Preston Bus wars in Preston?

A BUS driver has avoided a jail term and kept his job after assaulting a driver from a rival company at Northwich bus station.

Nigel Taylor, a driver at GHA Coaches, pleaded guilty to one count of grievous bodily harm after the incident in which a Network Warrington driver sustained facial injuries at Northwich bus station at around 1.45pm on September 6, 2014.

Taylor, 56, of Crescent Road, Ellesmere Port, was given a 12-month jail term, suspended for 18 months, 200 hours unpaid work and ordered to pay compensation of £2,500 as well as court costs of £1,500 at Chester Crown Court on April 22.

Stephen Bryce, general manager at GHA, said: “I am aware that following an incident in Northwich Bus Station on September 6, 2014, between one of our drivers and an employee from one of our competitors that our driver was arrested and that following his appearance in court he has received a suspended sentence, a fine and community service.

“Although he remains in our employment he has been dealt with through our company disciplinary procedure and the company is assisting him through his rehabilitation.

“The driver is now used on duties that do not require an enhanced DBS check and he has no direct unsupervised contact with children or vulnerable adults.

“Following this incident the company has now reviewed its recruitment and disciplinary processes.

“The company has made the local authorities who we undertake contracts aware of this matter and has also been in dialogue with The Office of the Traffic Commissioner to keep them updated.”

In October another driver at GHA, who was employed despite wearing a tag, was jailed for four months for punching a motorist 10 times.

A spokesman for Network Warrington said: “Network Warrington confirm that the health and safety of its employees is of paramount importance and reiterate that any assault or other inappropriate actions towards its employees will not be tolerated.

“The company is grateful to the police and CPS for pursuing what was an unacceptable assault on one of its drivers.

“Such incidents have no place within a professional or public environment and the actions of the individual concerned were completely unacceptable and should not have occurred.

“The company and its employee are pleased with the outcome of the hearing and believe that justice has been served.”

The victim required hospital treatment for his injuries.

http://m.northwichguardian.co.uk/ne...ter_attacking_rival_at_Northwich_bus_station/

 

[northwichcat]

Network Warrington are revising the times of their 16/45/46 services from 1st September, what's the chance they'll be 5 minutes before the GHA services?

 

[kagreen]

Do you have any further information regarding Network Warrington's Timetable changes on the 16, 45 and 46 routes as today's VOSA line refers to a number of timetable changes from the 1st September but none of these routes have been mentioned. Thanks.

 

[northwichcat]

Do you have any further information regarding Network Warrington's Timetable changes on the 16, 45 and 46 routes as today's VOSA line refers to a number of timetable changes from the 1st September but none of these routes have been mentioned. Thanks.

The reason I mentioned 16/45/46 is because those are the routes where there is direct competition between GHA and Network Warrington and each time an operator changes their times they seem to re-time them to run 5 minutes before their competitor's service. GHA changed their timetables most recently so currently their services run a few minutes ahead of the Network Warrington ones.

Network Warrington appear to be revising most of their timetables from 1st September.

 

[kagreen]

Interesting to see that from the 1st September Network Warrington are withdrawing the No. 45 Service to Northwich. However, they will be extending their No. 46 Service to include Lostock and Wincham.

 

[northwichcat]

Interesting to see that from the 1st September Network Warrington are withdrawing the No. 45 Service to Northwich. However, they will be extending their No. 46 Service to include Lostock and Wincham.

Part of the 46 service is to fulfill a Cheshire West contract and part of it's commercial. The 45 service is fully commercially.

 

[northwichcat]

New Network Warrington route for the 46 route will be Higher Wincham to Northwich Station to Northwich to Barnton to Comberbach to Stretton to Warrington. The 46 route will be hourly, Network Warrington won't run any 45 services. Warrington bound departures will generally leave Northwich 9 minutes before the GHA service. In the return direction Network Warrington buses will generally leave Warrington Interchange 5 minutes before the GHA service.

 

[kagreen]

I am sorry to disagree but the timetable clearly shows that generally speaking Network Warrington will leave the Warrington Interchange on the hour which is 25 minutes after GHA Coaches service. Only three NW Services i.e. 15.30, 16.30 and 17.30 services will leave Warrington five minutes before GHA Coaches. However there is an 08.30 no. 46 from Warrington but this will terminate at Stretton. Going the other way from Northwich to Warrington generally speaking most NW Services will leave Watling Street four minutes before GHA. There are just one or two exceptions.