Giving up a reserved "priority" seat. Your thoughts

[sliver]

I found this story doing the rounds in the media and was interested in members' more experienced views on the matter.

Am I wrong for not moving from my booked seat for an elderly person

Hopefully the right place to post as it policy based but apologies if not

The source is from reddit and the hyperlink is below

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[Class800]

Difficult one - ideally priority seats should be unreserved, as that's the purpose of them, to be used for someone in need

 

[Haywain]

Difficult one - ideally priority seats should be unreserved, as that's the purpose of them, to be used for someone in need

Should someone who needs one not be able to reserve it?

 

[spyinthesky]

Not that it makes much difference but wasn’t this story 4 years ago on Virgin Trains

 

[Class800]

Should someone who needs one not be able to reserve it?

This could be another way to use it, for disabled or assistance passengers

 

[sliver]

Not that it makes much difference but wasn’t this story 4 years ago on Virgin Trains

I've only just seen it on a redtop website, and the original post on reddit was 5 days ago

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not that it makes much difference but wasn’t this story 4 years ago on Virgin Trains

Perhaps it was a similar story from a few years ago. Would be slightly surprised if similar incidents didn't occasionally happen, from time to time.

Presume the woman who was complaining (if indeed she was actually a first class ticket holder) would have been entitled to a partial refund if all the first class accommodation on the train was actually full.

 

[ainsworth74]

Should someone who needs one not be able to reserve it?

I would take the Portuguese approach whereby the system won't reserve anyone into such a seat unless they specifically tick a box on the website asking for one on the basis of disability or the Czech Railways approach where you can select on their seat selector a priority seat but it warns: "You have selected a seat which is reserved for passengers with limited mobility and orientation. Are you really such a passenger? If not, please select a different seat. If no other seat is available, then it is no longer possible to purchase a reservation for this train."

Obviously can quibble about the precise wording and indeed how many passengers would obey it (particularly if it was the last available seat!). But it does seem like there's a middle ground to be had between not offering them for reservation at all and making them reservable for everyone and I can't help but wonder if the Czech and Portugese might be onto something with the way they handle it.

 

[Haywain]

I would take the Portuguese approach whereby the system won't reserve anyone into such a seat unless they specifically tick a box on the website asking for one on the basis of disability or the Czech Railways approach where you can select on their seat selector a priority seat but it warns: "You have selected a seat which is reserved for passengers with limited mobility and orientation. Are you really such a passenger? If not, please select a different seat. If no other seat is available, then it is no longer possible to purchase a reservation for this train."

Obviously can quibble about the precise wording and indeed how many passengers would obey it (particularly if it was the last available seat!). But it does seem like there's a middle ground to be had between not offering them for reservation at all and making them reservable for everyone and I can't help but wonder if the Czech and Portugese might be onto something with the way they handle it.

I guess there are ways it could be done, but they wouldn't necessarily change anything for the woman who hadn't got a reservation. However, the other side of this is that asking someone to move out of such a seat is akin to asking them if they have a disability and I'm not sure that is seen as being acceptable.

 

[ainsworth74]

I guess there are ways it could be done, but they wouldn't necessarily change anything for the woman who hadn't got a reservation.

True though hopefully it would make those seats more available for those that need them. Rather than being automatically given away to people who don't need them by the reservation system.

However, the other side of this is that asking someone to move out of such a seat is akin to asking them if they have a disability and I'm not sure that is seen as being acceptable.

Agreed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would take the Portuguese approach whereby the system won't reserve anyone into such a seat unless they specifically tick a box on the website asking for one on the basis of disability or the Czech Railways approach where you can select on their seat selector a priority seat but it warns: "You have selected a seat which is reserved for passengers with limited mobility and orientation. Are you really such a passenger? If not, please select a different seat. If no other seat is available, then it is no longer possible to purchase a reservation for this train."

Obviously can quibble about the precise wording and indeed how many passengers would obey it (particularly if it was the last available seat!). But it does seem like there's a middle ground to be had between not offering them for reservation at all and making them reservable for everyone and I can't help but wonder if the Czech and Portugese might be onto something with the way they handle it.

Within reason. There are reasons for needing one not relating to a disability, e.g. needing the extra legroom due to not fitting normal seats (though it's good that 80x offer enough legroom for me in all seats, as do refurbed Pendolinos, many trains don't).

I've never had an attempt to get me out of one - I generally find that people of limited mobility prefer *not* having the extra legroom as they like to hold the seat in front to sit down.

 

[Adam Williams]

I would take the Portuguese approach whereby the system won't reserve anyone into such a seat unless they specifically tick a box on the website asking for one on the basis of disability or the Czech Railways approach where you can select on their seat selector a priority seat but it warns: "You have selected a seat which is reserved for passengers with limited mobility and orientation. Are you really such a passenger? If not, please select a different seat. If no other seat is available, then it is no longer possible to purchase a reservation for this train."

Obviously can quibble about the precise wording and indeed how many passengers would obey it (particularly if it was the last available seat!). But it does seem like there's a middle ground to be had between not offering them for reservation at all and making them reservable for everyone and I can't help but wonder if the Czech and Portugese might be onto something with the way they handle it.

Agreed - I was thinking earlier it would make sense to allow reservations, but only via an accredited graphical seat selector which notified the user it's a priority seat appropriately. TrainSplit will do this, provided the data is available.

It doesn't feel right to me that currently these just get allocated to anyone who books a service. And of course, the way LNER set up their services mean that every TIS will try to get a reservation for every passenger, it's not something they opt into.

 

[Wallsendmag]

LNER priority seats aren't bookable by everyone. They either have to be booked through Passenger Assist or by someone with the correct credentials to book them.

 

[Adam Williams]

LNER priority seats aren't bookable by everyone. They either have to be booked through Passenger Assist or by someone with the correct credentials to book them.

Presumably for London -> Aberdeen, OP was on an LNER train?

In fact trainsplit will happily let me pick a seat which is marked as Priority on the Azuma seat map, so I'm not convinced this is set up correctly in S3.

 

[trainophile]

Apparently the "elderly" lady was 60 and not disabled, so had no valid claim to the seat.

 

[ainsworth74]

Agreed - I was thinking earlier it would make sense to allow reservations, but only via an accredited graphical seat selector which notified the user it's a priority seat appropriately.

Yes that does seem the sensible compromise position to me. Allow them to be reserved but give a clear warning as to what you're reserving and to think about whether you need it or not.

In fact trainsplit will happily let me pick a seat which is marked as Priority on the Azuma seat map, so I'm not convinced this is set up correctly in S3.

I just used the LNER website to look at random Darlington to London service and the seat selector was quite happy with me putting myself in a priorty seat. No warning that I was doing so. Though I noticed the key at the bottom did suggest that seats marked with "P" were priorty seats and I did notice that each carriage appeared to have two such seats which were unreservable. However the seat map for an Azuma on the LNER website (and my experience on the train tallies with this) indicates that there are usually around ten priority seats per standard class carriage. Perhaps it is more accurate to say that some priorty seats are held back but most are reservable with no indication as to their status?

 

[AlterEgo]

This is from Reddit, where over half of the posts are fictional, so don't try to read too much into the specifics.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LNER priority seats aren't bookable by everyone. They either have to be booked through Passenger Assist or by someone with the correct credentials to book them.

I have booked one before on the LNER app. Removing this would be a bad thing; not everyone needing one needs assistance.

 

[Haywain]

I have booked one before on the LNER app. Removing this would be a bad thing; not everyone needing one needs assistance.

I believe the ones that are bookable are for those who do not require assistance. It’s preferable to keep the assistance towards the ends of the coaches.

 

[35B]

I have booked one before on the LNER app. Removing this would be a bad thing; not everyone needing one needs assistance.

I regularly book assisted travel for someone. I would dearly love the opportunity to use those seats on the LNER website, but they're completely unavailable.

 

[Haywain]

I regularly book assisted travel for someone. I would dearly love the opportunity to use those seats on the LNER website, but they're completely unavailable.

The point is that for assisted travel it is preferred to use the priority seats at the ends of the coaches.

 

[185]

Not quite trains, but the Priority Seat thing is spreading to other modes abroad. On one sector of my 24 hour flight we've booked, during seat selection there's a 'P' on the end seat of our row. Given the cost of seat selections being over £350, I envisage doors being opened with the slides still armed if we're asked to move (from our non-P seats).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not quite trains, but the Priority Seat thing is spreading to other modes abroad. On one sector of my 24 hour flight we've booked, during seat selection there's a 'P' on the end seat of our row. Given the cost of seat selections being over £350, I envisage doors being opened with the slides still armed if we're asked to move (from our non-P seats).

Is it bulkhead? People will be reseated out of these if a baby is booked as it is the only place a "bassinet" (cot) can be used.

 

[david1212]

IMO priority seats should be reservable but if selected trigger a ' terms & conditions ' pop-up stating that if you book this seat but do not specifically need a priority seat you must vacate the seat for somebody who does need a priority seat.

In the real world of course plenty of grey rather than clear black or white which leads to conflict.

 

[185]

Is it bulkhead?

I thought that, but it's nowhere near... the very back row on an A350-1000 - on both sides (--P --- P--). Nowhere near a toilet either (just the main galley behind).