Grand Central bi modes?

[MML]

It's a real pity Grand Central are running 5-car Class 180 diesel units all the way down the electrified ECML to Kings Cross.
Surely longer bi mode units should be considered for these services, thereby minimising pollution when running under the wires and maximizing capacity on the congested ECML where train paths are at a premium particularly over the 2 line sections.

 

[HST43257]

I wish GC could get a fleet of 5 car IET bimodes

1tp2h 10 car service from KGX, splitting at DON for 1tp2h BDI and SUN services.

Less KGX-DON paths used, but better and more attractive (clockface) timetables.

Remove 1 service every day in each direction for peak time restrictions (so for example no 0900 KGX arr and no 1730 KGX dep)

 

[greyman42]

As someone who actually use's the services, i am quite happy with the reasonably comfortable 180's.

 

[HST43257]

As someone who actually use's the services, i am quite happy with the reasonably comfortable 180's.

There is just a fairly strong climate argument. Should it really be that DMUs should run over 150 miles under the wires on London to Bradford services and over 200 miles on London to Sunderland services? Hull Trains got it right, and I'm sure GC could try to do the same. Might also spur on XC to get IETs given the Arriva connection.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There is just a fairly strong climate argument. Should it really be that DMUs should run over 150 miles under the wires on London to Bradford services and over 200 miles on London to Sunderland services? Hull Trains got it right, and I'm sure GC could try to do the same. Might also spur on XC to get IETs given the Arriva connection.

In an ideal world, no... however the 180s are what's available, they're what GC's crews are trained on, and GC seem to have managed to get them to work reliably. They offer a far superior travelling environment than the awful 80x units too: how can something be so expensive yet feel so cheap?

It's often said that the most environmentally friendly car is the one you already own, the same probably applies to trains too.

 

[Starmill]

Grand Central are in no position to be taking on new trains after the pandemic. If anything the opposite is more likely. It's a miracle they've actually survived at all.

 

[37424]

In an ideal world, no... however the 180s are what's available, they're what GC's crews are trained on, and GC seem to have managed to get them to work reliably. They offer a far superior travelling environment than the awful 80x units too: how can something be so expensive yet feel so cheap?

It's often said that the most environmentally friendly car is the one you already own, the same probably applies to trains too.

Do they last time I was in a 180 on the East Coast I was almost sea sick with the swaying motion of the carriage, by contrast I was on a IET down the East Coast a couple of weeks back admittedly I was in 1st class and hence with a better seat but I thought the train was very comfortable.

As for GC they will do what is most cost effective for them at present, and that's unlikely to be new rolling stock in the current climate.

 

[mike57]

I haven't experienced a Grand Central 180, but the Hull trains ones were pretty dire, always breaking down and a rough ride, even water leaks in heavy rain on one journey back to Hull a couple of years ago. The question is what are Grand Central doing differently to get the 180's to work. I agree with others, we are lucky that GC survived the pandemic, and GC would not be looking to spend money. GC are now the only operator using diesel traction into King X regularly, and this has been discussed here https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ting-at-trainshed-subsurface-stations.223463/ I have seen the GC Bradford service at Doncaster, and it never looks particularly busy, although the Sunderland one at York seems busier (just a look through the windows as the trains leaves/depart).

Bearing in mind that as far as I can see once off the wires neither GC service will exceed 75mph would a 5 car 80x with 2 engines be practical or cheaper to run/lease.

In terms of passenger comfort LNER 80x 2nd class is not comfortable, particularly in the airline seats. Hull trains 1st class is comfortable, and well worth the extra money for a Hull trains 1st advance fare. I think the configuaration of the carriage makes all the difference, if GC bought 80x maybe they would go for a better 2nd class layout in order to differentiate themselves from LNER at the expense of a small amount of capacity.

 

[supervc-10]

It's not the carriage layout that's the problem on IETs I don't think- they've got plenty of legroom (although perhaps more tables would be a good idea). It's the seats that aren't the best, although I don't find them as bad as some people do personally.

802s for Grand Central though would be a good idea, if they could afford them. I'll need to catch the 180s before they go!

 

[Irascible]

Ordering any 80x when there is a probable design flaw in all of them is beyond daft. Who else has a product?

 

[Mikey C]

It's not the carriage layout that's the problem on IETs I don't think- they've got plenty of legroom (although perhaps more tables would be a good idea). It's the seats that aren't the best, although I don't find them as bad as some people do personally.

802s for Grand Central though would be a good idea, if they could afford them. I'll need to catch the 180s before they go!

Agreed, the seat layout is fine. It's the seats themselves that are the issue, an hour and a half on one on Saturday was quite enough for me!

Legroom is generous, so thicker seats would still leave plenty of space

Ordering any 80x when there is a probable design flaw in all of them is beyond daft. Who else has a product?

Agreed. Now's not the time for a big investment, whether for financial reasons, or because of the problems with the IET