Grangemouth Train station - Developments?

[PYROOGOBBO]

Hey so i've heard a few whispers about the possibility of reopening a train station in grangemouth, and i wondered if you guys had any more info about it possibly, always suprised me that grangemouth didn't have a train station considering its size + it having the refineries

also if a station was reopened in grangemouth, would it be an extension of the glasgow queen street to falkirk (would be grangemouth) via cumbernauld route or could it open up other routes too possibly? also would it share track with the frieight heading out of the refinery/where a lot of the container trains come from (heading to daventry i think)?

 

[DuncanS]

Some discussion already -

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=144848&page=2

As noted, they have put in the poles for the electrification down to Grangemouth. I'd still say its far more likely than Bonnybridge to get a station owing to its end of the line positioning.

 

[Gadget88]

I hope it does get a station eventually.

Been saying for years they could link it up with the Cumbernauld train and people could change at falkirk for Edinburgh services.

 

[mcmad]

Aren't the Cumbernauld services planned to extend through to Edinburgh Thou?

 

[DuncanS]

Putting in more stopping trains on a line they are upgrading (Polmont to Edinburgh section) to decrease the travel time between Edinburgh and Glasgow doesn't seem that feasible - the 1707 from Stirling will often sit outside Polmont waiting for the express from Glasgow to clear the line and on Friday night we were shunted into a passing line at Murrayfield for a few minutes to allow for the late running express to Glasgow to pass us.

We shall see though.

 

[Altnabreac]

Aren't the Cumbernauld services planned to extend through to Edinburgh Thou?

Indeed. The plan is to speed up Edinburgh - Stirling services by extending the Glasgow - Falkirk Grahamston services through to Edinburgh and pick up the stops at Polmont, Linlithgow, Winchburgh and Edinburgh Park.

Running the extra services would only really be possible once the Dalmeny Chord and grade separation at Winchburgh is open at some point in CP6. (though funding for this proposal is not yet agreed)

This proposal makes any reopening to Grangemouth much more difficult as there is no obvious service to extend. I'm afraid it may have missed it's chance for the foreseable future.

 

[Starmill]

The option for doing this has been on the table for years given the funding and the local support. It would clearly have had a good case and it would have been easy to provide a direct Glasgow service using the existing route. Now that this route has been spoken for it will be a huge challenge to get the station built on the grounds that there is no train to serve it.

Instead it would probably be more worthwhile to look at stations in Bonnybridge or Abronhill (or maybe even both) before Grangemouth.

 

[InOban]

The industry has asked for grade separation of Greenhill Upper within the next CP. If this happens it might be possible to speed up Glasgow to Stirling services by transferring Bishopriggs etc to a new grangemouth service.

 

[170401]

Instead it would probably be more worthwhile to look at stations in Bonnybridge or Abronhill (or maybe even both) before Grangemouth.

Bonnybridge IMO is a no brainer! As well as serving a growing population locally it would help take pressure off of nearby Larbert and Croy. It would also become a really useful interchange station between Croy/Stirling and Cumbernauld/Edinburgh routes.

As far as Grangemouth is concerned, I believe Cumbernauld is to go to 4TPH post EGIP, could the 2 extra services be run through to terminate at Grangemouth?

 

[route:oxford]

I'm wondering if an Alloa-Grangemouth shuttle would be for the best.

There wouldn't be much in the way of end-to-end passengers - but an increase in frequency between Stirling and Alloa would be very popular indeed and a direct service between Grangemouth and Stirling is also likely to be popular.

Perhaps, if well timed, there would be the option of dropping Camelon from one of the two Edinburgh-Dunblane services per hour to speed up services?

 

[Altnabreac]

I'm wondering if an Alloa-Grangemouth shuttle would be for the best.

There wouldn't be much in the way of end-to-end passengers - but an increase in frequency between Stirling and Alloa would be very popular indeed and a direct service between Grangemouth and Stirling is also likely to be popular.

Perhaps, if well timed, there would be the option of dropping Camelon from one of the two Edinburgh-Dunblane services per hour to speed up services?

No. That would have an absolutely awful business case. Never going to happen.

The industry has asked for grade separation of Greenhill Upper within the next CP. If this happens it might be possible to speed up Glasgow to Stirling services by transferring Bishopriggs etc to a new grangemouth service.

That might be a slightly better option. Back in the mists of time EGIP also originally included a turnback platform at Croy to allow a split between stopping and semi fast services. If it can be timetabled right then a Grangemouth service could replace the requirement for a Croy turnback, if you can then combine the new Perth semi fast with a speeded up Dunblane service then there might not even be a huge net increase in services.

Something like:
2 Hourly Glasgow - Stirling - Perth (Inverness)
Hourly Glasgow - Stirling - Perth (Aberdeen)
Hourly Glasgow - Croy - Larbert - Stirling - Alloa
Hourly Glasgow - Larbert - Stirling - Bridge of Allan - Dunblane - Gleneagles - Perth (Dundee/Arbroath)
Half hourly Glasgow - Bishopbriggs - Lenzie - Croy - Camelon - Falkirk Grahamston - Falkirk Stadium for Helix Park - Grangemouth

Would only be an increase of 1-2tph from the current service so with grade separation at Greenhill should be possible.

 

[route:oxford]

No. That would have an absolutely awful business case. Never going to happen.

Well, back in the "mists of time", wasn't there a shuttle between Dunblane and Larbert? As well as a shuttle between Stirling & Falkirk Grahamston?

 

[adrock1976]

I think that the Stirling - Falkirk Grahamston shuttle operated on Sundays, so as to connect with the Glasgow QS - Edinburgh Waverley trains.

I remember the Sunday timetable with the Glasgow QS - Edinbirgh Waverley trains running via Falkirk Grahamston rather than Falkirk High - perhaps this was the reason?

 

[route:oxford]

I think that the Stirling - Falkirk Grahamston shuttle operated on Sundays, so as to connect with the Glasgow QS - Edinburgh Waverley trains.

I remember the Sunday timetable with the Glasgow QS - Edinbirgh Waverley trains running via Falkirk Grahamston rather than Falkirk High - perhaps this was the reason?

Yes, I did use those services in the early 90s.

I meant further back in the mists of time, I'm sure I've seen pictures of services sitting in the South facing East bay at Dunblane (long gone) for Larbert. Likewise I'm sure I've seen pictures of the North facing East Bay at Larbert for Dunblane.

 

[Class 170101]

As far as Grangemouth is concerned, I believe Cumbernauld is to go to 4TPH post EGIP, could the 2 extra services be run through to terminate at Grangemouth?

But does this only concern local services which currently reverse at Springburn to run via Queen Street Low Level?

I would think it would be cheaper to re-instate the half hourly service Cumbernauld used to have direct to Queen Street High Level. There appears to be a path for this in the standard hour timetable which is currently un-used. Thereby extend this service hourly to Grangemouth.

 

[clc]

But does this only concern local services which currently reverse at Springburn to run via Queen Street Low Level?

I would think it would be cheaper to re-instate the half hourly service Cumbernauld used to have direct to Queen Street High Level. There appears to be a path for this in the standard hour timetable which is currently un-used. Thereby extend this service hourly to Grangemouth.

I imagine the 2tph Queen Street high-level to Cumbernauld service is what is being extended to Edinburgh so Grangemouth would have to be an extension of the Springburn- Cumbernauld service.

 

[Class 170101]

I imagine the 2tph Queen Street high-level to Cumbernauld service is what is being extended to Edinburgh so Grangemouth would have to be an extension of the Springburn- Cumbernauld service.

Its only hourly today.

 

[signallerscot]

That would allow the 2Vxx Dumbarton - Cumbernauld services to be done away with. They're not especially well used, just get in the way and are first to get binned whenever there's any sort of disruption on the North Electric corridor.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Before any EGIP started, there were 2tph Queen Street HL to Cumbernauld and points thereafter. After Springburn-Cumbernauld was electrified, that reduced to 1tph, with 2tph coming from the Springburn electric terminators being extended. Originally the plan was that post-EGIP, the 2tph Cumbernauld service would return, with electrification being the main change. Now, the plan is that the 2tph Springburn terminators will continue to operate in addition to these services, providing a good combination of frequency, speed and connectivity to Cumbernauld that makes everyone happy. The 2tph HL electric trains are those that will now run through to Edinburgh as a stopper.

The only real justification I can see for a Grangemouth station now is if extra trains run from Glasgow to Falkirk Grahamston but they cannot be accommodated east of there. If so, they'll have to turn back on the branch anyway. If the timetable is right, then the cost of a Grangemouth station would just be the signalling and the platform needed to run a passenger service. However, it may well be the case that the business case isn't that strong even with a low cost. The Grangemouth area in general isn't exactly badly served by rail, with the two Falkirk and Polmont stations being not too far away. If you're interested in the fastest possible journey to Glasgow (and Edinburgh) then a drive to Falkirk High for the E&G would be hard to beat. This is especially so if there's only a single train per hour at Grangemouth. Alloa's 1tph service works fine because there isn't really an alternative at peak times that doesn't involve driving along congested trunk routes. Realistically then I think you would need at least 2tph up the branch to make the platform worthwhile. Extending the 2tph Cumbernauld stopper would almost certainly be possible but then the journey time to Glasgow would be very long, making the branch even more unpopular compared to the E&G route. A simple shuttle bus with through-ticketing that runs to the two Falkirk stations might well be a better use of Transport Scotland funds.

 

[mwmbwls]

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/grangemouth-electrification-goes-live#
"Overhead power lines on the railway around Grangemouth freight terminal will be live from Sunday (February 10).

Delivered by the Stirling-Alloa-Dunblane electrification project the lines through the freight terminal from Grangemouth junction to Fouldubs junction will be live for testing and carrying 25,000 volts of electricity.

Part of the Scottish Government-funded programme to electrify rail lines across the Central Belt, the new infrastructure will be in service from March this year".

Does this make a new Grangemouth station more or less likely?

 

[Highlandspring]

Neither.

 

[mcmad]

The extension of the Grahamston service to Edinburgh as pretty much killed a Grangemouth station. Can't have too many E&G services after all.

 

[Gadget88]

The extension of the Grahamston service to Edinburgh as pretty much killed a Grangemouth station. Can't have too many E&G services after all.

They could retimetable these trains again.

I notice the electrification doesn’t go as far as the back of Asda so any future station would have to be near the back of the post office.

 

[mcmad]

They're not going to remove the extension to Edinburgh so any Grangemouth station would need to be served by a completely new service. The idea worked before as it was using the 'dead' layover time of the Grahamston services.

 

[Class 170101]

Actually the service had to run forward ECS to Grangemouth as there is no infrastructure to reverse in Grahamston station itself.

 

[mcmad]

Actually the service had to run forward ECS to Grangemouth as there is no infrastructure to reverse in Grahamston station itself.

Only after about 19:00 as until then the services don't terminate at Grahamston anymore, they run through to Edinburgh and even when they did they didn't run down all the way to Granagemouth.

 

[Stopper]

An extension to Grangemouth would be useful and likely well used but I can’t see it now that the Grahamston terminators have been extended to Edinburgh. Changing the Edinburgh extension to a Grangemouth extension wouldn’t affect that much, other than the fact Linlithgow and Polmont would need a replacement service to Edinburgh.

 

[reb0118]

Grangemouth will open as part of the Grangemouth to Methil service running via Stirling, Alloa, Dunfermline, & Thornton.

 

[och aye]

Grangemouth will open as part of the Grangemouth to Methil service running via Stirling, Alloa, Dunfermline, & Thornton.

Do you have a link to a source for this?

 

[Macwomble]

Grangemouth will open as part of the Grangemouth to Methil service running via Stirling, Alloa, Dunfermline, & Thornton.

Do you have a link to a source for this?

Can't see the point in opening that service. You'd need to wire from Alloa to Thornton (first) OR run it diesel....in which case not a lot of point in having the wires between Grangemouth & Alloa....not forgetting the infrastructure works (stations) along the Fife coast.