Great British Railways: Branding options?

[Sad Sprinter]

Moneys on GTR April 2025 being the first in line.

What will they rename Southern to? Will be a hell of a rebranding operation.

 

[Minstral25]

What will they rename Southern to? Will be a hell of a rebranding operation.

Howabout "Southern" - why do they need to rename it, fine as it is, no need to change.

 

[Towers]

Howabout "Southern" - why do they need to rename it, fine as it is, no need to change.

Ideally there will be a single national brand, with a single set of literature, policy and everything else to match. It’d be an awful missed opportunity if not.

 

[greatkingrat]

Ideally there will be a single national brand, with a single set of literature, policy and everything else to match. It’d be an awful missed opportunity if not.

I think you still need some sort of distinction between "Intercity" services and other local/regional services.

 

[setdown]

Ideally there will be a single national brand, with a single set of literature, policy and everything else to match. It’d be an awful missed opportunity if not.

You probably don't even need a rebranding exercise either. Just use the new branding when new timetables and posters printed, trains need their corrosion works and are repainted, etc... save the cash for more urgent railway-related spending.

 

[Senex]

I think you still need some sort of distinction between "Intercity" services and other local/regional services.

Surely only if there's a genuine difference in quality of service — speed, comfort, facilities, etc.

 

[HSTEd]

I think you still need some sort of distinction between "Intercity" services and other local/regional services.

I'm not sure such a distinction is really sensible in the modern UK railway system.

As speeds have increased, journey times have reduced and I think there are only a few "intercity" services (in the traditional sense) left.

 

[fisher2511]

What will they rename Southern to? Will be a hell of a rebranding operation.

British Railways. Southern Region.

 

[JonathanH]

British Railways. Southern Region.

Which would be shortened to Southern.

 

[TheSmiths82]

I think some regional branding would still be helpful. E.g I know if I get a Trans Pennine train I can generally expect it to be intercity, faster and a bit more comfortable but more expensive, where as Northern will be slower but usually a lot cheaper and in case of the cross Pennine services often quieter. I would be quite sad if all the livery of all trains were the same, it would be a big boring.

In France they have different branding on different trains, even though they are all (well mostly) operated by SNCF. So for services that call at Manchester Piccadilly (the train station I am most familiar with) we could have

• GBR - Intercity - West Coast (formally Avanti)
• GBR - Northern (formally Northern)
• GBR - Intercity Trans Pennine (formally TP Express) - I am not sure if it deserves an intercity name though. I also wonder if there should just be one brand, Northern but split between express and normal sub-brands, getting rid of the separate Northern and TPE operations).
• GBR - East Midlands - as above, I wonder if all the Midlands services should be merged
• GBR - Intercity Cross Country - Basically the current XC operate, but I wonder if some TPE services should transfer to this too, such as Manchester to Edinburgh
• TFW - I am not sure how the new law would impact existing services run by dissolved governments. Would TFW be totally separate from GBR?
• Bee Network - I am guessing these would be apart of GBR, e.g still have to be run by a public sector owned railway, but could the Bee Network operate the trains directly under the new law? In practical terms I don't think it is logistically possible, so I am guessing GBR Northern would run the trains on behalf of the Bee Network.

If companies like London Midland start operating to Manchester Victoria as planned things could get quite interesting, would this end up being a GBR Express service? Or maybe GBR Midland Railway or something. After typing all that, perhaps the only logical thing is just to have one brand, but split between regional, express and intercity sub-brands. I think would work well too, if I was getting a train from Manc Vic to Leeds, and it was a GBR Express I would know it was a replacement for the TPE service, if it said Regional I would know it was the old Northern service.

 

[Re 4/4]

In France they have different branding on different trains, even though they are all (well mostly) operated by SNCF.

However they seem to put a lot more emphasis on the TGV/intercity network to the neglect of regional ones, especially outside Paris.

In Switzerland meanwhile, everything is just SBB (or SOB or RhB but that's not a IC/local distinction) and everything seems to get more or less equal attention. Ticketing is integrated too except for "advances".

I know the InterCity brand was highly successful under BR, but I would love to see everything under the same brand myself.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Is "GBR" really sticking? I assumed that once in power Labour would drop the "G". "British Rail" Is just a much better name.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think some regional branding would still be helpful. E.g I know if I get a Trans Pennine train I can generally expect it to be intercity, faster and a bit more comfortable but more expensive, where as Northern will be slower but usually a lot cheaper and in case of the cross Pennine services often quieter. I would be quite sad if all the livery of all trains were the same, it would be a big boring.

In France they have different branding on different trains, even though they are all (well mostly) operated by SNCF. So for services that call at Manchester Piccadilly (the train station I am most familiar with) we could have

• GBR - Intercity - West Coast (formally Avanti)
• GBR - Northern (formally Northern)
• GBR - Intercity Trans Pennine (formally TP Express) - I am not sure if it deserves an intercity name though. I also wonder if there should just be one brand, Northern but split between express and normal sub-brands, getting rid of the separate Northern and TPE operations).
• GBR - East Midlands - as above, I wonder if all the Midlands services should be merged
• GBR - Intercity Cross Country - Basically the current XC operate, but I wonder if some TPE services should transfer to this too, such as Manchester to Edinburgh
• TFW - I am not sure how the new law would impact existing services run by dissolved governments. Would TFW be totally separate from GBR?
• Bee Network - I am guessing these would be apart of GBR, e.g still have to be run by a public sector owned railway, but could the Bee Network operate the trains directly under the new law? In practical terms I don't think it is logistically possible, so I am guessing GBR Northern would run the trains on behalf of the Bee Network.

If companies like London Midland start operating to Manchester Victoria as planned things could get quite interesting, would this end up being a GBR Express service? Or maybe GBR Midland Railway or something. After typing all that, perhaps the only logical thing is just to have one brand, but split between regional, express and intercity sub-brands. I think would work well too, if I was getting a train from Manc Vic to Leeds, and it was a GBR Express I would know it was a replacement for the TPE service, if it said Regional I would know it was the old Northern service.

The Idea I had was that Euston to ManVic services would be called "Regional" - a new designation for services that follow Intercity routes but stop at far more stations. The Euston to Crewe service would be Regional as well.

 

[physics34]

I think you still need some sort of distinction between "Intercity" services and other local/regional services.

Agree. The sectorisation in the late 80s/early 90s was actually bang on! NSE, IC, RR, Scotrail..... i personally would add more routes to the Intercity brand.. ie Southeastern High Speed, Waterloo to Weymouth/Exeter. And to play devils advocate... the last intercity swallow livery still looks the bees knees and should make a comeback.

 

[Mikey C]

A UK version of InterRegio might make sense. For example going out of Euston you'd have Overground, InterRegio (LNWR) and InterCity (Avanti), ditto Kings Cross with the Great Northern services being InterRegio.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I think some regional branding would still be helpful. E.g I know if I get a Trans Pennine train I can generally expect it to be intercity, faster and a bit more comfortable but more expensive, where as Northern will be slower but usually a lot cheaper and in case of the cross Pennine services often quieter. I would be quite sad if all the livery of all trains were the same, it would be a big boring.

If Transpennine was rebranded Northern its going to confuse a lot of people!

Already it confuses people as many but tickets only valid for much slower Northern services!

 

[eldomtom2]

The Idea I had was that Euston to ManVic services would be called "Regional" - a new designation for services that follow Intercity routes but stop at far more stations. The Euston to Crewe service would be Regional as well.

This seems to be trying to make branding do service types' jobs - the more sensible option in my eyes would be to label those services as "semi-fast" or "fast", with the Avanti services labelled as "express". These names would be independent of branding.

 

[Transilien]

What about the generalisation of the 'Overground' name for commuter services around cities?

 

[WibbleWobble]

In France they have different branding on different trains, even though they are all (well mostly) operated by SNCF.

In France, services are split into InOui (TGV), Intercités (long distance classic lines), and TER (local) sectors. Then there's Transilien/RER for services around Paris.

TER services are those with different branding, because these services are controlled by the regional councils (so branding wise would be similar to Scotrail or London Oveground).

 

[vuzzeho]

A UK version of InterRegio might make sense. For example going out of Euston you'd have Overground, InterRegio (LNWR) and InterCity (Avanti), ditto Kings Cross with the Great Northern services being InterRegio.

I think InterRegio (maybe InterRegional?) could work. But for pure commuter services (like, LNWR EUS-MKC) a train branded IR wouldn't work, in my view. I think a good compromise is just have services displayed as IR and the stock in commuter (NSE or whatever they'll call it) livery.

 

[Uncle Buck]

In my ideal world:

-Intercity- all fast, long-distance services; so everything operated by Avanti, LNER, Transpennine and CrossCountry, plus the top-line expresses operated by Greater Anglia, SWR, GWR, EMR, Hull Trains, Scotrail and TFW.
-Metropolitan- which could not be a single brand but would be operated by local transport boards in the major urban areas as part of an integrated transport network, eg TfL, Strathclyde, Merseytravel, West Midlands etc
-Connect- everything else; could be sub-branded as, say “Wessex Connect” or “Northern Connect” or whatever and you’d probably still find it easier to have Scotrail as its own brand.

Because I have no imagination I’d have Intercity in the old GNER livery and Connect in classic BR blue; all the metropolitan services would develop their own livery which would also be used on their buses/ trams/ tubes.

I can dream!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Plenty of ideas and opinions covered in this thread too:

Livery under Great British Railways

Will, if successful, Labour plan to strip all current liveries and repaint everything into a similar scheme? What sort of logistics would have to be enabled to allow this to happen? My personal opinion on this - I think it would be a waste of time and resources, passengers are already used to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Meerkat]

Ideally there will be a single national brand, with a single set of literature, policy and everything else to match. It’d be an awful missed opportunity if not.

What would that achieve, because I can think of a big reason that it is a terrible idea!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ideally there will be a single national brand, with a single set of literature, policy and everything else to match. It’d be an awful missed opportunity if not.

Devolution has put paid to that, plus local mayors with transport remits and budgets to match.
There will be multiple brands, possibly within a GBR umbrella.

 

[eldomtom2]

Devolution has put paid to that, plus local mayors with transport remits and budgets to match.
There will be multiple brands, possibly within a GBR umbrella.

I can't see there not being a GBR umbrella. Labour will want maximum publicity for rail renationalisation.

 

[TUC]

Ideally there will be a single national brand, with a single set of literature, policy and everything else to match. It’d be an awful missed opportunity if not.

Why, when brands such as LNER have a strong image?

 

[setdown]

Think of all the money to be saved by just having one identity, rather than coming up with 15 or so different ones. Ok, you have the word “Intercity” stuck on the relevant trains. But why does GBR need to be more than that?

 

[Meerkat]

Think of all the money to be saved by just having one identity, rather than coming up with 15 or so different ones. Ok, you have the word “Intercity” stuck on the relevant trains. But why does GBR need to be more than that?

Think of all the money lost by having one boring, heavily tarnished, brand.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I can't see there not being a GBR umbrella. Labour will want maximum publicity for rail renationalisation.

It might not stretch as far as Cardiff or Edinburgh, and TfL has always been separate, even though it runs two National Rail contracts (LO and EL).

 

[Towers]

Think of all the money lost by having one boring, heavily tarnished, brand.

Lost how?

I’m happy to keep repeating it; actual passengers want simplicity! They really don’t care. Ryanair have an appalling brand image, and yet if you want to fly from Here to There and they do the route at a decent price, the masses will flock to them!

Why, when brands such as LNER have a strong image?

Along with accompanying nonsense like LNER being the only TOC who won’t sell you a return ticket. Most people really couldn’t give a stuff about ‘brands’, they just want a simple ticket buying and journey experience. Arguably the strongest ‘brand’ of all belonged, for many years, to Virgin, and the powers-that-be still saw fit to give them the chop.