Greater Manchester Rail Strategy - 1983

[rogerfarnworth]

A Rail Strategy for Greater Manchester (1983). …​

Reading the ‘Modern Tramway’ Journal of May 1983 in Autumn 2023, took me back to the time when I was working for Greater Manchester Council. The County Engineer was A.E. Naylor. I was working in the Engineer’s office in County Hall.
The ‘Modern Tramway’ carried an article by W.J. Wyse about the then recently released rail strategy for the conurbation.

A Rail Strategy for Greater Manchester (1983). …

Reading the ‘Modern Tramway’ Journal of May 1983 in Autumn 2023, took me back to the time when I was working for Greater Manchester Council. The County Engineer was A.E. Naylor. I was w…

rogerfarnworth.com

 

[Chester1]

A Rail Strategy for Greater Manchester (1983). …​

Reading the ‘Modern Tramway’ Journal of May 1983 in Autumn 2023, took me back to the time when I was working for Greater Manchester Council. The County Engineer was A.E. Naylor. I was working in the Engineer’s office in County Hall.
The ‘Modern Tramway’ carried an article by W.J. Wyse about the then recently released rail strategy for the conurbation.

A Rail Strategy for Greater Manchester (1983). …

Reading the ‘Modern Tramway’ Journal of May 1983 in Autumn 2023, took me back to the time when I was working for Greater Manchester Council. The County Engineer was A.E. Naylor. I was w…

rogerfarnworth.com

Metrolink has its heavy rail purist haters but its a cheap and effective system that has done what was expected. I knew it emerged out of the cancellation of Pic-Vic tunnel due to lack of funding but it interesting to see the plan sketched out nine years before the first line open.

We are in another period of constrained transport funding and maybe some of the parts that where not converted will be.

 

[daodao]

We are in another period of constrained transport funding and maybe some of the parts that where not converted will be.

Now that the proposed HS2 station at Piccadilly been shelved, will TfGM press ahead with light rail conversion of the ex-GC suburban lines to Marple and Glossop, as originally suggested in the 1983 strategy?

 

[rogerfarnworth]

An excellent question.

 

[Chester1]

Now that the proposed HS2 station at Piccadilly been shelved, will TfGM press ahead with light rail conversion of the ex-GC suburban lines to Marple and Glossop, as originally suggested in the 1983 strategy?

I think Tram Train of those routes is still of interest. I think like any UK tram train project any momentum will only come if South Wales Metro is successful. The Sheffield tram train was in terms of construction and introduction, a disaster and put off TfGM. The TfGM 2040 plan will need to be rewritten following cancellation of HS2.

 

[daodao]

I think Tram Train of those routes is still of interest.

It would be relatively simple to convert the line via Bredbury to Marple Rose Hill to pure Metrolink operation. The Glossop/Hadfield line could also be converted to pure Metrolink operation, but would require extra construction, in particular restoration of 4 tracks between Ashburys and Guide Bridge. I am assuming for both lines that the Piccadilly-Ashburys segment would be "on street" and separate from heavy rail. I presume that was what was previously envisaged under the historic strategy.

 

[Chester1]

It would be relatively simple to convert the line via Bredbury to Marple Rose Hill to pure Metrolink operation. The Glossop/Hadfield line could also be converted to pure Metrolink operation, but would require extra construction, in particular restoration of 4 tracks between Ashburys and Guide Bridge. I am assuming for both lines that the Piccadilly-Ashburys segment would be "on street" and separate from heavy rail. I presume that was what was previously envisaged under the historic strategy.

I think the street section and Romiley to Marple Wharf Junction have repeatedly prevented the line from being converted. Parallel single tracks would restrict Hope Valley time tables and damage reliability. Glossop works well with EMUs and there would need to be a very high demand for capacity into the low numbered platforms at Piccadilly for it to be worth doing. Maybe the assumption with Glossop would be that Metrolink went on the old alignment with Ardwick, Ashburys, Gorton and Fairfield stations demolished and replaced with a similar number of tram stops. Glossop needs the higher top speed of tram trains (ususally 62mph vs Metrolink 50mph) and the additional capacity of purpose built 60m units (probably 20% more passenger space than 2 x 28.5m tram units).

Its good to see that Metrolink is still achieving its primary goals of better access to city centre and relieving a very complicated city centre rail network.

If you look at the heavy rail part of the map you can see Windsor Link, Hazel Grove Chord and Manchester Airport rail link years before they were built.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Now that the proposed HS2 station at Piccadilly been shelved, will TfGM press ahead with light rail conversion of the ex-GC suburban lines to Marple and Glossop, as originally suggested in the 1983 strategy?

It would be better surely to convert that route into an Underground line, maybe running west to the Trafford Centre

 

[Chester1]

It would be better surely to convert that route into an Underground line, maybe running west to the Trafford Centre

Of course that would be better but do you think the Treasury is going to provide billions for it?! Bury and Altrincham trams terminate at Piccadilly. Those 10tph could go 5tph to Glossop and 5tph to Marple Rose Hill. An underground Metrolink line has been envisaged since the 80s but it won't happen until Metrolink is completely full in the city centre.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Of course that would be better but do you think the Treasury is going to provide billions for it?

Sorry, I forgot I lived in Britain.

 

[Chriso]

Sorry, I forgot I lived in Britain.

This really made me chuckle , so true.

A depressing reality unfortunately. They can’t even run the current cut back basic hourly Northern rail services let alone anything else