Guards on C2C trains.

[stadler]

C2C went mostly DOO in the very early 2000s when the 357s were introduced. However they kept Guards on all twelve coach trains until the late 2010s. They called them the ridiculous job title "Train Captain" and they were non commercial Guards who stayed in the rear cab and used ten bell despatch. There was only 16 of them who were all based at Shoeburyness and they solely worked twelve coach trains. I had an interesting conversation with one years ago.

My question is when did they get rid of them? I have asked a few people and have been told 2017 and 2018 and 2019 by different people so it seems very difficult to find accurate information. They were definitely still around in early 2017. I saw them myself working trains in early 2017. That was the last time i saw them but i do not use the C2C network much. Does anyone have a more exact date and know what month and year they got rid of them and went DOO on twelve coach trains?

Also how did C2C manage to convert their twelve coach trains to DOO so easily? Normally whenever DOO happens it is very controversial. There is always stuff in the news. But there was nothing about this. Even the unions like ASLEF and RMT never seemed to make any fuss about this. So i am curious how they managed to roll out DOO on their twelve coach trains so quietly and easily without any dispute?

Thank you in advance for any information.

 

[LowLevel]

I believe they went fully DOO in 2017 with the introduction of the camera fitted 387s.

They'd already had the strikes in 2001/2002 when the 357s were introduced - effectively the guards were mobile train dispatchers on c2c with no expectation of any customer interaction etc.

 

[CarrotPie]

ten bell despatch.

What's ten ball despatch?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What's ten ball despatch?

Guard to driver: 1-2
Driver to guard: 1-2
Driver presses door close
Guard to driver (after closing local door): 2
Driver to guard: 2
Train starts

A total of 10 bells/buzzes. Also used on Voyagers.

 

[Horizon22]

I imagine that once they had already gone DOO with the 357s, it was more of a simple procedural change to then phase guards out for 12-car trains. Not to mention the relatively small numbers involved, it probably wasn't picked up as much.

And the rail (and national!) media was VERY much focussed on the Southern / GTR dispute at the same time.

 

[357]

I believe they went fully DOO in 2017 with the introduction of the camera fitted 387s.

There were only 2 12-car 387 sets. All other 12-car trains were and are still 357 operated.

 

[whoosh]

I seem to recall it was done very quietly right in the middle of the Southern DOO dispute!

 

[CarrotPie]

Guard to driver: 1-2
Driver to guard: 1-2
Driver presses door close
Guard to driver (after closing local door): 2
Driver to guard: 2
Train starts

A total of 10 bells/buzzes. Also used on Voyagers.

Ah right.

 

[wls1]

Believe it went fully DOO after the January 2017 timetable, 12 car running was increased and full 387 diagrams were introduced. It was agreed with Aslef and RMT at the time

 

[warwickshire]

C2C went mostly DOO in the very early 2000s when the 357s were introduced. However they kept Guards on all twelve coach trains until the late 2010s. They called them the ridiculous job title "Train Captain" and they were non commercial Guards who stayed in the rear cab and used ten bell despatch. There was only 16 of them who were all based at Shoeburyness and they solely worked twelve coach trains. I had an interesting conversation with one years ago.

My question is when did they get rid of them? I have asked a few people and have been told 2017 and 2018 and 2019 by different people so it seems very difficult to find accurate information. They were definitely still around in early 2017. I saw them myself working trains in early 2017. That was the last time i saw them but i do not use the C2C network much. Does anyone have a more exact date and know what month and year they got rid of them and went DOO on twelve coach trains?

Also how did C2C manage to convert their twelve coach trains to DOO so easily? Normally whenever DOO happens it is very controversial. There is always stuff in the news. But there was nothing about this. Even the unions like ASLEF and RMT never seemed to make any fuss about this. So i am curious how they managed to roll out DOO on their twelve coach trains so quietly and easily without any dispute?

Thank you in advance for any information.

There was a small number at East Ham, depot as well, approximately around 4 to 6, remember one of the ex Guards telling me so, around 2014. He also told me about the 387s, coming in service on there very shortly and that he will be retiring early when they come into service.
However believe it or not train captains did do some customer service but only to get hours in, but only if accompanied or with some one else, Shoeburyness mainly did barriers at Shoeburyness or always with Revenue on way back on train but never alone, ie extra support.
However East Ham sometimes rather than sit spare, did accompanied barriers with Security.
Shoeburyness had majority of work.
East Ham had one in the Evening.
Don't Forget around 2007 didn't they work 321s to Laindon or around then for 357 Modifications.