Guards Periscopes.

[Ashley Hill]

Hello,I am trying to find some information about the guards periscopes fitted to Mk1 and early Mk2 guards compartments. I've seen pictures of the roof mounted mirrors but none of the internal fittings. Most of these guards compartments still show evidence of where it was carried. I believe their use was discontinued sometime around 1969. There's little in the Mk1/2 books about them.
The Rolling Stock thread seems a bit modern for this but please move if preferred.

 

[dubscottie]

Mk2 did not have them. Guards were supposed to ensure the train was safe and check the signal aspect.

I presume the advent of colour light signalling, AWS & track circuiting made them redundant.

The Keith Parkin book has a pic of the internal fittings.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Cheers. I'm pretty sure the early Mk2/2As had them as I remember the covered over hole in the van ceiling above the cooker and as a young guard wondering what had been there. One of the senior chaps who remembered the periscopes told me about them.

 

[John Webb]

…...I presume the advent of colour light signalling, AWS & track circuiting made them redundant.......

It was colour light signalling that made the periscopes redundant, as the signals tended to be sited lineside at 'Driver's eye-level' and therefore couldn't be seen by guards through the periscopes. In the days of manual semaphore signals it was customary to place these at a higher level so there was a 'sky' background to make sighting easier both by driver and guard.

 

[edwin_m]

It was colour light signalling that made the periscopes redundant, as the signals tended to be sited lineside at 'Driver's eye-level' and therefore couldn't be seen by guards through the periscopes. In the days of manual semaphore signals it was customary to place these at a higher level so there was a 'sky' background to make sighting easier both by driver and guard.

Also many colour lights will revert to danger before they come into the view of a guard at the rear of a train. Semaphores have to show a proceed aspect until the whole train has passed the signal and any points beyond it.

 

[dubscottie]

Cheers. I'm pretty sure the early Mk2/2As had them as I remember the covered over hole in the van ceiling above the cooker and as a young guard wondering what had been there. One of the senior chaps who remembered the periscopes told me about them.

Mk2 definitely did not have them. They were getting removed from Mk1 before the first Mk2 was built.
Periscopes were a Southern Railway thing. LNER/LMS used side lookouts. Not sure about the GWR.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Do any examples remain in preservation,even on pre-nationalisation stock?

 

[John Webb]

Do any examples remain in preservation,even on pre-nationalisation stock?

Might be worth looking through the Vintage Carriages Trust list of coaches - see http://www.rhrp.org.uk/surveystatus.htm

 

[Cowley]

Do any examples remain in preservation,even on pre-nationalisation stock?

I’m pretty sure that I’ve looked through one on the Mid Hants. Possibly in their Bulleid brake, but it was nearly thirty years ago now!

 

[contrex]

I’m pretty sure that I’ve looked through one on the Mid Hants. Possibly in their Bulleid brake, but it was nearly thirty years ago now!

There are periscopes on 4-SUB and 2-BIL motor brake coaches in the National Railway Museum, and I have just looked at a photo of Bulleid Semi-Open Brake Third No 2526 on the Bluebell with a periscope appearing to be present.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Thanks,perhaps when all this is over I'll have a trip to York.