GWR crowding and bad unit change at Bristol

[Snow1964]

Met a friend off a Cardiff-Portsmouth train at Bradford on Avon, running 17 minutes late due to crowding at 6pm. Looked like it was operating at 200+% of seating capacity.

It was one of 3 (of 8) diagrams operating as a 2car unit today (usual GWR lack of serviceable stock). However apparently the unit was changed at Bristol and from what I gather some people who arrived from Cardiff couldn't get on the replacement 2car 158. The train in question was 1F25 which runs at commuter time from Bristol.

As it happens my friend squeezed on, and said stop at Bath Spa was really terrible with people trying to squeeze past others to get off, and others get on. Apart from 158s being hideous on a busy commuter service, is it really acceptable to unit swap and leave people behind.

I have reminded him of delay repay for being over 15 minutes late

Wondered what others think of idea of finding a replacement unit that is too short for passengers to transfer to.

Realtime Trains | 1F25 1627 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour | 06/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 1F25 1627 departure from Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour on 06/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[northwichcat]

Instances like this have happened numerous times with Northern over the years. Sometimes it can be down to poor planning e.g. they're using a larger unit on a diagram where it doesn't cause as much of an issue. However, assuming the planners did everything they could would he have preferred a cancelled service due to the specified train type being unavailable and the service being deemed inappropiate to put a 2 car train on?

Personally I think a unit swap mid service should be only ever happen if there's a fault with the train and allowing it to continue in service would cause safety issues or discomfort for the passengers or crew.

 

[VP185]

Wondered what others think of idea of finding a replacement unit that is too short for passengers to transfer to.

Realtime Trains | 1F25 1627 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour | 06/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 1F25 1627 departure from Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour on 06/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It’s either a short form or a cancellation. Take your pick.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It’s either a short form or a cancellation. Take your pick.

It shouldn't be either, if the comapny had enough spare resources. (same applies to alternative routes) This was the fatal flaw in the Beeching plan, and every cost-cutting exercise since. Excess capacity is needed to cater for the unexpected. Unlike a production line in a Chemical works (Beeching's previous work experience), if a fault develops you can't just shut down the job until its fixed.

 

[VP185]

It shouldn't be either, if the comapny had enough spare resources.

And the finger of blame there points straight to the DfT. Force the withdrawal of 2+4s and offer the TOC no replacement. Everything now is a huge juggling act.

 

[Parallel]

The Weymouth train before it was also delayed due to a signalling fault, and passengers at Bristol were advised to wait on the platform for the Portsmouth service. The unit swap I believe was due to the previous train having a fault and needing to be taken out of service.

 

[Dr Day]

There was significant short forming yesterday too, including at peak times in both directions with capacity reduction at Temple Meads. But as others have said better a short form than nothing at all.

 

[Snow1964]

The Weymouth train before it was also delayed due to a signalling fault, and passengers at Bristol were advised to wait on the platform for the Portsmouth service. The unit swap I believe was due to the previous train having a fault and needing to be taken out of service.

What a mess, and poor advice if they said don't get 3car Weymouth service, but instead wait for the 2car Portsmouth service

The 1703 from Bristol (ex Gloucester) to Weymouth was 15 minutes late, left at 1718.
The 1722 from Bristol (Cardiff-Portsmouth) swapped from an inadequate 2car 158 to a very overcrowded different 2car 158, and also left 15 minutes late, which due to crowding lost time at almost every stop and eventually got to to Portsmouth 27 minutes late.

 

[Craig1122]

Personally I think a unit swap mid service should be only ever happen if there's a fault with the train and allowing it to continue in service would cause safety issues or discomfort for the passengers or crew.

Even with no fault of that kind it may still need to get back to depot that night & the alternative is to lose a unit the next day. Quite often you have to juggle stock with a view to the bigger picture. As others have said the underlying cause is the lack of resources to even adequately fulfil the timetable let alone have slack in case of problems.

 

[ollie_hunt1660]

Met a friend off a Cardiff-Portsmouth train at Bradford on Avon, running 17 minutes late due to crowding at 6pm. Looked like it was operating at 200+% of seating capacity.

It was one of 3 (of 8) diagrams operating as a 2car unit today (usual GWR lack of serviceable stock). However apparently the unit was changed at Bristol and from what I gather some people who arrived from Cardiff couldn't get on the replacement 2car 158. The train in question was 1F25 which runs at commuter time from Bristol.

As it happens my friend squeezed on, and said stop at Bath Spa was really terrible with people trying to squeeze past others to get off, and others get on. Apart from 158s being hideous on a busy commuter service, is it really acceptable to unit swap and leave people behind.

I have reminded him of delay repay for being over 15 minutes late

Wondered what others think of idea of finding a replacement unit that is too short for passengers to transfer to.

Realtime Trains | 1F25 1627 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour | 06/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 1F25 1627 departure from Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour on 06/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

By no means is short forming on Cardiff to pompey a rare occurrence, on Monday I got on the 1623 from Portsmouth and it was full and standing from PMS.

 

[Snow1964]

By no means is short forming on Cardiff to pompey a rare occurrence, on Monday I got on the 1623 from Portsmouth and it was full and standing from PMS.

Maybe fluke, but more likely the mess got noticed, and acted upon. Unlike yesterdays multiple 2car formations on the line, none today.

 

[The exile]

Wondered what others think of idea of finding a replacement unit that is too short for passengers to transfer to.

It was of course a line for line replacement (both short-formed) - but doing the swap often reverses the “pecking order”. Normally, it’s the people boarding at Bristol who have to fight for seats /get left behind; when there’s a unit swap they can often board first (confess to having benefitted from this on numerous occasions). Root cause is the treasury/ dft and the sooner all the TOCs get together and call this out the better.

 

[devon_belle]

Out of curiosity, would one be penalised for pulling the passcom in the event that they could not get off the train due to overcrowding and it started departing?

 

[timstours]

There were 2 class 800 on the Bristol TM -Worcester route on i think tuesday ,where is the sense in that

 

[HamworthyGoods]

There were 2 class 800 on the Bristol TM -Worcester route on i think tuesday ,where is the sense in that

There’s a lot of sense in that, that’s the only regional route at Bristol where 80x can be used. Without those that would be an extra 2 DMUs which would have to be found to run those services.

 

[The exile]

There were 2 class 800 on the Bristol TM -Worcester route on i think tuesday ,where is the sense in that

They are diagrammed (or at least 1 certainly is) - in theory (which is all the DfT care about), GWR have a surplus of IETs for the true intercity services.

 

[VP185]

Out of curiosity, would one be penalised for pulling the passcom in the event that they could not get off the train due to overcrowding and it started departing?

Staff would probably welcome it!! There would be resultant delay minutes which crew would gladly explain. Those delay minutes are generally the only way management/DfT are made aware of an issue.

 

[Towers]

It shouldn't be either, if the comapny had enough spare resources. (same applies to alternative routes) This was the fatal flaw in the Beeching plan, and every cost-cutting exercise since. Excess capacity is needed to cater for the unexpected. Unlike a production line in a Chemical works (Beeching's previous work experience), if a fault develops you can't just shut down the job until its fixed.

Isn’t that exactly what the modern day railway does?!

 

[Lurcheroo]

Staff would probably welcome it!! There would be resultant delay minutes which crew would gladly explain. Those delay minutes are generally the only way management/DfT are made aware of an issue.

2nd this. During my time as a conductor, if my train was full and standing for any reason, I’d take the time to walk the length of the train to try and see if anyone was struggling to leave, any delays went down to it being full and standing. If someone pulled a passcomm due to it, I’d be more than happy to take the time to ensure they get off, reset the passcomm and again attribute any delay it being overcrowded.

My advice to anyone who does it (just incase you get a conductor who is unhappy about it) would be to say sorry but you had a really important appointment that you couldn’t afford to miss your stop or something like that.