GWR Scratch ticket validity

[sleepy_hollow]

My son came up from Penryn to Sea Mills on Thursday on a GWR 1st class scratch ticket issued in compensation for a cancelled sleeper train, using a GWR express from Penzance to Penzance. He intends to return tomorrow, Monday 21 October 2024.

Checking his trains for tomorrow he finds that the Paddington to Penzance GWR express service is running via the West of England route tomorrow, about which we can find no explanation except perhaps crewing. The Temple Meads to Penzance service will be either Cross Country (XC) or the Cardiff to Penzance stopper.

We cannot tell if he is entitled to use the express XC service with his ticket. On the front it is marked 'Valid for travel in all GWR train services in first class'. On the rear it is marked '...only valid on Great Western Railway Services and their recognised routes' and other references to National Conditions of carriage and so on. What does the '...and their recognised routes' mean. Is it additive meaning any train on a route served by GWR? Or subtractive applying some additional restriction? Where can we find the official version?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Only valid on GWR. Don't even try and use it somewhere else.

You have to solely use GWR trains on a permitted route from the origin to destination. So you can't use it for something silly like London to Penzance via Cardiff on GWR.

 

[sleepy_hollow]

Only valid on GWR. Don't even try and use it somewhere else.

You have to solely use GWR trains on a permitted route from the origin to destination. So you can't use it for something silly like London to Penzance via Cardiff on GWR.

Thank you.

Looking back at the timetable for last Thursday, I think we may have misunderstood what is normal. The 1830 from Truro, 1A39 may be an anomaly in going via Temple Meads rather than Westbury, so for Monday the stopper it is. For once I suspect it is good that this is probably an 800 service.

I am still puzzled by the '...and their recognised routes', which if not meaning any train on a route served by GWR seems to imply that it becomes invalid in the implausible situation of a GWR train leaving its 'recognised route'. Should presumably have said 'permitted route' as Tazi Hupefi suggests, meaning only routes permitted by a single ticket.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just to be clear, this freebie journey, from Sea Mills back to Penryn, can still be made entirely using GWR services tomorrow, albeit the journey time might perhaps be a little slower than, on occasion, it has recently been? Is that correct?

We cannot tell if he is entitled to use the express XC service with his ticket. On the front it is marked 'Valid for travel in all GWR train services in first class'. On the rear it is marked '...only valid on Great Western Railway Services and their recognised routes'

Seems straightforward enough to me. Can't use the ticket on XC. Be like trying to use a Northern complimentary on TPE. Can't do that either!

 

[sleepy_hollow]

Just to be clear, this freebie journey, from Sea Mills back to Penryn, can still be made entirely using GWR services tomorrow, albeit the journey time might perhaps be a little slower than, on occasion, it has recently been? Is that correct?


Seems straightforward enough to me. Can't use the ticket on XC. Be like trying to use a Northern complimentary on TPE. Can't do that either!

Probably, but 'Freebie' is an unnecessarily derogatory term for something issued as compensation.

I am unable to tell whether there is an anomaly in tomorrow's operation*, suspect not, but am still puzzled what the 'and their recognised routes' adds to the conditions, apart from confusion, or the solution from Tazi, that 'permitted routes' was meant, in which case it applies to tickets, not to trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2024 ==

The initial confusion probably arose because the National Rail site journey planner, and this forums ticket site do more often show journey's from Sea Mills to Penryn using the XC service, rather than the longer connection to the GW train at BRI, and finding out the operator requires careful reading of the next level of detail, with TOC not being a selection criterion.

And although the ticketing system may be complicated when buying a ticket, finding out when you can use an open ticket when you already have it offers even greater possibility for error.


* on this route, there is an anomaly on Swansea services.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@sleepy_hollow. How did your son get on, yesterday?

 

[LittleRedTrain]

It could be 'and their recognised routes' was intended to exclude the 'special' services operated by GWR in the past over private lines, such as Minehead and Okehampton (before it became a proper part of the national network).

 

[sleepy_hollow]

@sleepy_hollow. How did your son get on, yesterday?

As far as we know, fine. He studied the timetable, found that the 1450 (2C79) from Temple Meads was the last through GWR service to Truro for some hours, and took the 1354 from Sea Mills to connect with it. Although 2C79 is shown in RTT as one service RTT reports a set change at Plymouth.

Although we were aware that XC operate an express service to the south west it has never really sunk in that in what we think of as GWR land, the main long distance operator is not GWR. Having an operator specific open ticket is not something we have met before and requires studying timetable details that would not normally concern us, with either an ordinary open ticket, or a train specific advance. I suppose we could blame privatisation for this situation, or alternatively, nationalisation (1948) since as far as I know the NE-SW service was handed over from LMS to GWR at Temple Meads, running powers not being used.