"GWR Service"/"Great Western Railway"

[sjoh]

I noticed this at Paddington a few weeks ago - GWR seem to distinguish between local stoppers and their long distance services by using two running names. Great West Railway appears to be stopping services, with 'GWR service' used for intercity.
I imagine that these are broken up along the lines of the old FGW/Link services, but I was under the impression that when they'd merged the Thames Trains franchise into FGW they'd stopped using these differentiations. Now it appears they're back (and in a somewhat sloppy fashion I might add). So, does anyone know why?

For an example of what I mean, see here.

 

[3141]

Perhaps someone thinks that passengers will learn to identify which are the stopping services and which are the fast ones. But they're probably wrong.

 

[FGW_DID]

On Realtime Trains all services are referred to as "Great Western Railway" services however when you look at the details of the different services there is this:
(for example: the two services departing for oxford at 1850)

2N71 1850 London Paddington - Oxford
Ordinary passenger Service code 25506005

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C47591/2016/10/15/advanced

1D67 1850 London Paddington - Oxford
Express passenger Service code 25507005

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C46723/2016/10/15/advanced

Perhaps whoever has programmed the departure board display on the Network Rail website as linked to above may have annotated the service codes differently, who knows?

As far as I'm concerned the only splits between GWR services are London & Thames Valley (LTV), High Speed & Sleeper(HSS) and West.

 

[JN114]

On Realtime Trains all services are referred to as "Great Western Railway" services however when you look at the details of the different services there is this:
(for example: the two services departing for oxford at 1850)

2N71 1850 London Paddington - Oxford
Ordinary passenger Service code 25506005

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C47591/2016/10/15/advanced

1D67 1850 London Paddington - Oxford
Express passenger Service code 25507005

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C46723/2016/10/15/advanced

Perhaps whoever has programmed the departure board display on the Network Rail website as linked to above may have annotated the service codes differently, who knows?

As far as I'm concerned the only splits between GWR services are London & Thames Valley (LTV), High Speed & Sleeper(HSS) and West.

The discrepancy in service code changes the "branding" field on GWR'S CIS system (which, incidentally does NOT cover Paddington). This is a legacy/compatibility hangover from one of the older CIS systems (specifically the system fitted by FGW/GWT before they were merged with Thames and Wessex). After the merger the "HSS" system would announce HST-operated services as "First Great Western High Speed", presumably as at the time they wanted people to know the difference!

As the new joint system, now used across the GWR network, was installed progressively over several months/years; it had to be able to provide that info to stations with the old hardware. There is no difference in the information displayed or announced at stations with CIS controlled by GWR. They both reference the same logo and announcement files on the database. How Paddington, and other non-GWR managed stations interpret that code is down to how thei CIS is programmed.

 

[sjoh]

I think we have an answer! Thanks both!

 

[thelongestroad]

And at the stations which use the god awful text-to-speech CIS system (Severn Tunnel Junction and Clifton Down come to mind), it announces it as a "GWR service service".

 

[sjoh]

Still, not as bad as the "nine thirty One service to Norwich"...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Which reminds me, at Liverpool Street they've replaced the word "service" in announcements with "train". Intuitive I guess if there's a bus running instead...

Is this a trial? Anyone know why it's being done there and nowhere else? Seems to have started around the time LO took over the WA routes.

 

[plymothian]

And at the stations which use the god awful text-to-speech CIS system (Severn Tunnel Junction and Clifton Down come to mind), it announces it as a "GWR service service".

That's because it's a different part of the announcement.

The next train to arrive at platform n is the /
xx:xx /
GWR service /
service to x /
calling at a, b, c /
this train is currently on time.

splice in Great Western Railway, Crosscountry, South West Trains etc in place of "GWR service" and it makes more sense.

Incidentally, the announcements down the south west seem to have lost "Crosscountry" from its vernacular and just announce "xx:xx service to..."; likewise yesterday 'Bristol Parkway' went AWOL leaving just a gap. No one has paid to a 'Launceston' to the system, and 'Holsworthy' for some reason is appended with '...by bus' but no others.

 

[43074]

Still, not as bad as the "nine thirty One service to Norwich"...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Which reminds me, at Liverpool Street they've replaced the word "service" in announcements with "train". Intuitive I guess if there's a bus running instead...

Is this a trial? Anyone know why it's being done there and nowhere else? Seems to have started around the time LO took over the WA routes.

It's also in use at other Greater Anglia stations, it works as long as the word 'train' or 'trains' does not appear in the branding of the TOC... for East Midlands Trains services from Norwich or Ely you have ''Platform 3 for the 10:57 East Midlands Trains train...'', but 'service' would work better to avoid repeating 'train'.

 

[sjoh]

That's because it's a different part of the announcement.

The next train to arrive at platform n is the /
xx:xx /
GWR service /
service to x /
calling at a, b, c /
this train is currently on time.

splice in Great Western Railway, Crosscountry, South West Trains etc in place of "GWR service" and it makes more sense.

Incidentally, the announcements down the south west seem to have lost "Crosscountry" from its vernacular and just announce "xx:xx service to..."; likewise yesterday 'Bristol Parkway' went AWOL leaving just a gap. No one has paid to a 'Launceston' to the system, and 'Holsworthy' for some reason is appended with '...by bus' but no others.

I assume the angry face only appears if the train is late.

 

[louis97]

I noticed this at Paddington a few weeks ago - GWR seem to distinguish between local stoppers and their long distance services by using two running names. Great West Railway appears to be stopping services, with 'GWR service' used for intercity.
I imagine that these are broken up along the lines of the old FGW/Link services, but I was under the impression that when they'd merged the Thames Trains franchise into FGW they'd stopped using these differentiations. Now it appears they're back (and in a somewhat sloppy fashion I might add). So, does anyone know why?

For an example of what I mean, see here.

It'll be because of different arrangements for boarding trains at Paddington, all the long distance services get 'Ready to leave' announcements and also disappear off the boards a bit earlier than the local services I think. Dependent on the boarding requirements the assignment of the branding behind the scenes would differ, I presume the differences between the TOC name displayed is just an oversight.

The discrepancy in service code changes the "branding" field on GWR'S CIS system (which, incidentally does NOT cover Paddington). This is a legacy/compatibility hangover from one of the older CIS systems (specifically the system fitted by FGW/GWT before they were merged with Thames and Wessex). After the merger the "HSS" system would announce HST-operated services as "First Great Western High Speed", presumably as at the time they wanted people to know the difference!

As the new joint system, now used across the GWR network, was installed progressively over several months/years; it had to be able to provide that info to stations with the old hardware. There is no difference in the information displayed or announced at stations with CIS controlled by GWR. They both reference the same logo and announcement files on the database. How Paddington, and other non-GWR managed stations interpret that code is down to how thei CIS is programmed.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make? This thread is talking about the ATOS CIS at Paddington, a system which would never of been able to communicate to the Amey Datel (HSS) CIS. Therefore the different branding at Paddington would of had no effect on the rest of the network.

On top of that the HSS CIS stopped announcing 'High Speed' a long time before the CIS system upgrade started.

 

[Parallel]

And at the stations which use the god awful text-to-speech CIS system (Severn Tunnel Junction and Clifton Down come to mind), it announces it as a "GWR service service".

Yep, and Keynsham, Exeter St Thomas etc...

With proper recorded automated announcements, they use "Great Western Railway" but on nearly all boards in the West Country, departure boards would say (GWR Service) after the list of stations the train calls at. IMO it should just say GWR or Great Western Railway. Maybe Great Western Railway uses too many characters for the board but they think the public won't know what GWR is or something.

On their refurbed trains with PIS they use "Great Western Railway" which makes me think character length might be the problem on the departure boards.