GWR 'Turbo' Headcodes Displayed

[Deepgreen]

I think (not sure) this has been mentioned previously, but it is still occurring. Trains on my line (North Downs) often (not always, though) display headcodes such as '11', '13', etc., and I am unclear who these are supposed to be for. They are nothing to do with train ID codes, but seemingly some form of route indicator. However, they are not shown anywhere else to link them to the routes for the public, so surely no-one can possibly know their meanings. I am curious as to their purpose.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They are a route indicator, yes - I'm not sure if they match the former SR route numbers for that line, though.

 

[birchesgreen]

Chiltern often do this too, i've always thought it would be a useful thing to use more (and publicise obviously) especially at busier stations where multiple services can use the same platform within a short period. People are used to looking out for bus route numbers after all.

 

[zwk500]

GWR also show them in the Bristol area. I think it's been mentioned they were intended to form part of a suburban pattern (in the style of the old SR codes or European Railways), but like many ideas the coherent implementation didn't happen.

 

[Deepgreen]

They are a route indicator, yes - I'm not sure if they match the former SR route numbers for that line, though.

They don't. I just think having route numbers where there is no reference to them in any passenger information is pointless. I grew up with SR route codes as second nature, but these days, they are simply so rare on the railway as to be useless if they are used (with no way for people to know their meaning). They just take up space on already-poor cab-end displays. On RTT, BTW, yet another headcode number is shown for them, other than their UK standard reporting four character code. This is an example from a working today - UID G44898, identity 1V46, TSC 25521007, headcode 5317 (my italics).

 

[sh24]

The headcodes were a Network South East idea borrowed from Southern Region practice.

 

[Deepgreen]

The headcodes were a Network South East idea borrowed from Southern Region practice.

I can believe it but why are they still, pointlessly, being shown decades later?

 

[Train Boy]

I think (not sure) this has been mentioned previously, but it is still occurring. Trains on my line (North Downs) often (not always, though) display headcodes such as '11', '13', etc., and I am unclear who these are supposed to be for. They are nothing to do with train ID codes, but seemingly some form of route indicator. However, they are not shown anywhere else to link them to the routes for the public, so surely no-one can possibly know their meanings. I am curious as to their purpose.

The two digits displayed are the first two digits of the four digit PIS code entered by the train crew, I don't believe there's any relevance other than that.

 

[TurboMan]

I can believe it but why are they still, pointlessly, being shown decades later?

Because changing the TrainFX software to suppress the two digits would cost money that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[LRV3004]

I remember when the 323s first entered service around Manchester that their original destination display equipment could show numbers. It was possible by entering the number followed by the destination code into the display. If, for example, the code for Crewe was 026, then if 17026 was entered into the system, then the destination display would show “17 Crewe”. If 00 or no code was entered, followed by the three digit destination code, then only the destination was shown with no numbers prefixing it.

 

[GordonT]

The two digits displayed are the first two digits of the four digit PIS code entered by the train crew, I don't believe there's any relevance other than that.

To a mere lay observer such as myself that seems an insane practice.

 

[150219]

This topic crops up occasionally and can be explained as the southern region route codes being used, as they were for many years on the EMUs operating on the South Western/Central/Eastern regions. When the 165s and 166s were introduced, the system of route numbers was also then used on the Thames and Chiltern routes with the numbers being published in the relevant timetables. A quick search on ebay yields some of the numbers for the Thames route, with the combined timetable having showed the full set in the same way that the Chiltern one did. The original vultron PIS system used across the Networker fleet has now in many (all?) cases been upgraded, but I have also attached a segment of the driver schedule card showing the full 5-digit PIS code. The first 2 digits are the route code (01) and the last 3 are the station stopping pattern (021).

 

[Deepgreen]

Because changing the TrainFX software to suppress the two digits would cost money that could be better spent elsewhere.

So the passengers are left wondering what the headcode might mean (or is it just assumed that no-one looks at the indicators anyway)? Would the cost of the change be at all significant? It sounds like the situation therefore will remain the same until the Turbos are no more... It also begs the question - has the software not undergone any updates in the decades since it was introduced? If not, it must be extremely unusual in the world of IT.

 

[Purple Train]

So the passengers are left wondering what the headcode might mean (or is it just assumed that no-one looks at the indicators anyway)? Would the cost of the change be at all significant? It sounds like the situation therefore will remain the same until the Turbos are no more...

I've only ever seen them showing "01" and I've never seen anyone confused by it, even on a line with significant tourist traffic.

That's not to praise the PIS on the 165s, however - the announcements have been varying degrees of faulty for some time.

 

[PLY2AYS]

The first 2 digits are the route code (01) and the last 3 are the station stopping pattern (021). View attachment 166684

01021 means one thing.

Drive the Met home and book off

 

[Deepgreen]

I've only ever seen them showing "01" and I've never seen anyone confused by it, even on a line with significant tourist traffic.

That's not to praise the PIS on the 165s, however - the announcements have been varying degrees of faulty for some time.

I see various numerical codes on the NDL (my local route).

 

[norbitonflyer]

In the days of the "Tadpoles" the headcode for the North Downs line was "55" or "88" (different headcodes were used for the two directions because of the reversal at Redhill). (Diesel-operated routes usually had headcodes with multiples of 11 because older electric stock used stencil plates instead of roller blinds, and only had one stencil for each digit).

 

[Purple Train]

I see various numerical codes on the NDL (my local route).

That's interesting. Does anyone know if the Chiltern units also display more than just "01"?

 

[JonathanH]

I think (not sure) this has been mentioned previously, but it is still occurring. Trains on my line (North Downs) often (not always, though) display headcodes such as '11', '13', etc., and I am unclear who these are supposed to be for.

Not really moved on from 2014

FGW North Downs line 'headcodes'

RTT shows trains on the Reading-Redhill/Gatwick line as having headcodes 87 or 95. However, the trains themselves display headcodes 03 or 12 (when they are not simply showing "First Great Western"!). Can anyone shed any light on this disparity, please?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[greaterwest]

I saw 03 on a Gatwick bound stopping service today but have seen other numbers on these.

That's interesting. Does anyone know if the Chiltern units also display more than just "01"?

Don't Chiltern use the same PIS as the Turbostars? GWR use TrainFX. Perhaps it doesn't show anything else but I'm not familiar with that part of the network.

 

[DelW]

So the passengers are left wondering what the headcode might mean (or is it just assumed that no-one looks at the indicators anyway)?

I use the North Downs line pretty regularly, and I have to say I've never even noticed the headcodes. I suspect most passengers simply rely on the platform departure screens anyway and never even see the headcodes let alone worry about they mean.

 

[Deepgreen]

I use the North Downs line pretty regularly, and I have to say I've never even noticed the headcodes. I suspect most passengers simply rely on the platform departure screens anyway and never even see the headcodes let alone worry about they mean.

That could be true. It will just remain a useless quirk, I imagine.

In the days of the "Tadpoles" the headcode for the North Downs line was "55" or "88" (different headcodes were used for the two directions because of the reversal at Redhill). (Diesel-operated routes usually had headcodes with multiples of 11 because older electric stock used stencil plates instead of roller blinds, and only had one stencil for each digit).

That's correct. A nostalgic shot!

 

[PLY2AYS]

That's interesting. Does anyone know if the Chiltern units also display more than just "01"?

They definitely do 44 over the branch.

 

[12LDA28C]

That's interesting. Does anyone know if the Chiltern units also display more than just "01"?

Of course. The first two digits refer to the route and the last three to the destination and stopping pattern. On Chiltern, the '01' relates to the Met line between Aylesbury and Marylebone (or vice versa). It doesn't actually matter which first two digits are input into the PIS system as only the last three relate to the destination and stopping pattern. Hence '01021' will display the same destination and stopping pattern as '50021' or '69021' for example.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They definitely do 44 over the branch.

44 was Redhill- Tonbridge short workings in the 1970s

 

[Deepgreen]

Chiltern often do this too, i've always thought it would be a useful thing to use more (and publicise obviously) especially at busier stations where multiple services can use the same platform within a short period. People are used to looking out for bus route numbers after all.

They are indeed, but that has been a universal thing for a century or more. On the railway, although headcodes used to be common, they are no longer, and train destination indicators are universally abysmal anyway these days compared with buses.

 

[zwk500]

People are used to looking out for bus route numbers after all.

They are indeed, but that has been a universal thing for a century or more. On the railway, although headcodes used to be common, they are no longer, and train destination indicators are universally abysmal anyway these days compared with buses.

Part of the problem though is that the front of the train is visible for only a tiny fraction of the time to the passenger. The front of a Bus is much more visible to prospective passengers. However I am in favour of using these two-digit route numbers on suburban/metro routes and integrating them properly into the PIS systems on both train and Platform.

 

[birchesgreen]

Part of the problem though is that the front of the train is visible for only a tiny fraction of the time to the passenger. The front of a Bus is much more visible to prospective passengers.

I can't see it being that different. When there are multiple trains sharing a platform at New Street for example the route numbers will be visible for ages.

 

[RPM]

You can suppress the route number (on Chiltern units at least) by entering "00" as the first two digits. It just comes up blank on the display.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

There does appear to only be one person who has a problem with this. Nobody else has noticed.