Help with Oradea (RO)-Püspökladány (HU)

[alex397]

I’m planning to use this train in April, but it has seemingly disappeared from existence!

It is not found on the CFR and MAV journey planners, instead suggested an almost 6 hour diversion. It is not on Google Maps either. The use of an online search using Hungarian or Romanian words has brought up nothing either, apart from some cancellations/diversions from 2024.

There is no information about issues with this line on the CFR website.

However, a look in journey details on the MAV website shows trains running on the Hungarian side, and seemingly a rail replacement bus from Biharkeresztes to some station in the suburbs of Oradea.

Does anyone know what’s going on here? This will be part of a days travel in April from Oradea to Szeged, so I don’t really want disruptions on this journey as it’s quite a long way.

Only two days ago, it was appearing fine on the CFR international website, and I booked a ticket. Thankfully it was only about £5.

UPDATE: I’ve even looked at local Oradea newspaper websites and local Facebook groups. Quite a few bits about the railway line to Cluj being rebuilt, and an article about the train to Püspökladány taking too long due to now unnecessary border waits. But nothing about the current situation, if there even is a situation.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I’m planning to use this train in April, but it has seemingly disappeared from existence!

It is not found on the CFR and MAV journey planners, instead suggested an almost 6 hour diversion. It is not on Google Maps either. The use of an online search using Hungarian or Romanian words has brought up nothing either, apart from some cancellations/diversions from 2024.

There is no information about issues with this line on the CFR website.

However, a look in journey details on the MAV website shows trains running on the Hungarian side, and seemingly a rail replacement bus from Biharkeresztes to some station in the suburbs of Oradea.

Does anyone know what’s going on here? This will be part of a days travel in April from Oradea to Szeged, so I don’t really want disruptions on this journey as it’s quite a long way.

Only two days ago, it was appearing fine on the CFR international website, and I booked a ticket. Thankfully it was only about £5.

I don't know what CFR are up to here, but if desperate, you could get a taxi/even hitch to the border town of Biharkeresztes on the Hungarian side. There is an hourly service from there to Puspokladany, local train, plenty of seats. 45 min ride.

 

[Andover]

There's two options a day via Salonta which would avoid the double shuffle and take not much longer than normal. Departures at 0840 and 1608.

 

[alex397]

I don't know what CFR are up to here, but if desperate, you could get a taxi/even hitch to the border town of Biharkeresztes on the Hungarian side. There is an hourly service from there to Puspokladany, local train, plenty of seats. 45 min ride.

Good point, thanks. The train services seem to improve drastically as soon as you enter Hungary! I’m weary of using taxis, especially when travelling solo, but it’s something I could consider. I’m sure the hotel I plan to stay at may suggest a good company.
I have also seen there is an international local bus service, ‘numbered’ ROHU which also goes from Oradea to Biharkeresztes, though the timetables are different on different websites, so I’m not sure I trust that bus.

There's two options a day via Salonta which would avoid the double shuffle and take not much longer than normal. Departures at 0840 and 1608.

Thanks for this. MAV and CFR planners seem reluctant to suggest this route for when I search Oradea to Szeged, instead suggesting much longer journeys such as the one via Valea lui Mihai, or even via Budapest. Even when searching Oradea to Békéscsaba wants to take me the very long way.

Also not quite sure how tickets can be bought for this journey, seeing as it would involve a local train, then changing into an international train, which seem to have to be booked separately if doing online in advance. I guess it would be easy to book in person at Oradea?

Back to the Oradea-Püspökladány route, MAV suggests there is a rail replacement bus, not from the centre of Oradea, but you have to get it from Episcopia Bihor! Seeing as the trains appear to be rather terrible, I’m not sure I want to experience a Romanian rail replacement bus, especially as it doesn’t even bother to go from the main station that the train normally does. But of course a taxi would avoid that ridiculous hassle.

I will look into the Salonta route to see if it’s feasible, but it’s making me want to just avoid the hassle in going to Oradea and just spend more time in Timişoara (which I will be visiting before Oradea). Thankfully the hotel is free-cancellation.

 

[Andover]

Thanks for this. MAV and CFR planners seem reluctant to suggest this route for when I search Oradea to Szeged, instead suggesting much longer journeys such as the one via Valea lui Mihai, or even via Budapest. Even when searching Oradea to Békéscsaba wants to take me the very long way.

Also not quite sure how tickets can be bought for this journey, seeing as it would involve a local train, then changing into an international train, which seem to have to be booked separately if doing online in advance. I guess it would be easy to book in person at Oradea?

https://bileteinternationale.cfrcalatori.ro/ro/booking/search will sell it if you enter an appropriate via station. Why that's necessary is an interesting question.

 

[alex397]

https://bileteinternationale.cfrcalatori.ro/ro/booking/search will sell it if you enter an appropriate via station. Why that's necessary is an interesting question.

Thanks, I didn’t think about trying the ‘via station’ option for the Salonta route. That’s more like it! Not bad leaving Oradea at 08.40, arriving Szeged 12.33.
The only issue is the rather nail-biting 7 minute connection at Salonta, for the 09.40 to Bekescsaba, knowing the reputation that Romanian trains seem to have, and the next train being at 18.30!

 

[rg177]

I really haven't had any catastrophically bad delays on Romanian Railways. Long distance and sleeper services have quite a reputation but otherwise its more just that the infrastructure is knackered and the very slow journey times (as scheduled) reflect that.

 

[alex397]

I really haven't had any catastrophically bad delays on Romanian Railways. Long distance and sleeper services have quite a reputation but otherwise its more just that the infrastructure is knackered and the very slow journey times (as scheduled) reflect that.

Thank you for correcting my assumption!
I will do a bit of research to see if the 7-minute connection at Salonta would be guaranteed to some extent if the train from Oradea is delayed. Even in somewhere like Switzerland I would be a little worried about such a connection time.
If I missed it, I would be rather stuck at Salonta!

There's two options a day via Salonta which would avoid the double shuffle and take not much longer than normal. Departures at 0840 and 1608.

Is this 0840 from Salonta, or 0840 from Oradea?

The MAV journey planner shows the train leaving Salonta at 0840 (arr. Bekescsaba 10.15) whereas the CFR International journey planner shows it leaving at 0940 (arr Bekescsaba 10.13) and also shows that passengers get a train at 0840 from Oradea to meet the train at Salonta at 0940.
Im probably being thick - I’m guessing the time difference between HU and RO is confusing this. The MAV planner is presumably just on Hungarian time, even in Romania, which is not very helpful.

 

[Andover]

Is this 0840 from Salonta, or 0840 from Oradea?

The latter, yeah.

As for the connection times, I haven't done that one myself, but I don't think it would be too risky. We're not talking about an endless cross-country route here after all, just a DMU that's starting at Oradea. For a rough picture, you could try observing IR 1539 over several days via CFR's 'trenul meu'.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Thanks, I didn’t think about trying the ‘via station’ option for the Salonta route. That’s more like it! Not bad leaving Oradea at 08.40, arriving Szeged 12.33.
The only issue is the rather nail-biting 7 minute connection at Salonta, for the 09.40 to Bekescsaba, knowing the reputation that Romanian trains seem to have, and the next train being at 18.30!

When last in Timisoara, there was a tram accident which meant I missed the afternoon train to Budapest. I checked on OBB site, and it routed me via Salonta and Gyula. When I asked for the excess ticket price at Timisoara ticket office, the women there refused to believe the journey could be done until I told them to check the OBB website! So much for local knowledge!

 

[alex397]

The latter, yeah.

As for the connection times, I haven't done that one myself, but I don't think it would be too risky. We're not talking about an endless cross-country route here after all, just a DMU that's starting at Oradea. For a rough picture, you could try observing IR 1539 over several days via CFR's 'trenul meu'.

Thanks. I’ve been tracking that journey, and it’s been running on time to Salonta every day.
Simialrly, is there a way to check if the MAV train from Saltona? I haven’t found a function for that on their website.

When last in Timisoara, there was a tram accident which meant I missed the afternoon train to Budapest. I checked on OBB site, and it routed me via Salonta and Gyula. When I asked for the excess ticket price at Timisoara ticket office, the women there refused to believe the journey could be done until I told them to check the OBB website! So much for local knowledge!

That’s not very reassuring Though presumably wont have an issue if I’m booking it in advance.

I’m still yet to discover what is happening to the Oradea to Püspökladány line, and why there is seemingly no decent rail replacement service instead.

Another question - would it be better to book this international journey with CFR or MAV? I’d probably just book with CFR.

​

 

[The exile]

I’m still yet to discover what is happening to the Oradea to Püspökladány line, and why there is seemingly no decent rail replacement service provided

Would hazard a guess that the number of passengers between Oradea and the intermediates is near enough zero and there is no actual requirement to run the international service when there is an alternative. If any government wants the service, it’ll be the Hungarian one for political reasons.

 

[alex397]

I’m currently in Oradea, and I’ve collected my tickets for the Salonta route.

At Oradea station, on the list of departures it has a sticker with ‘anulat’ (cancelled) stuck on the Püspökladány departures. There was no information about if it will return, or about the rail replacement buses from Episcopia Bihor (the station on the outskirts of Oradea). Though I could have asked the station staff about it, but didn’t do so.

I wanted a bus ride, so thought I’d go and see the situation for myself at Episcopia Bihor, on bus route 11. I timed it to see the possible rail replacement bus, and sure enough there was a Hungarian registered coach waiting for passengers, on the 16.53 departure which 3 people were on board. There are 5 departures a day I believe.

It would be interesting to know the future for this, whether it’s due to poor track condition / engineering works or just lack of will for CFR to run it.

I’m not sure I’d recommend a visit to Episcopia Bihor. There were an interesting group of characters hanging around, and their kids throwing stones at me , and the bus. Plus an added drunk shouting at me for some reason. I’m glad I didn’t decide to go this way when I travel the route tomorrow!

. If any government wants the service, it’ll be the Hungarian one for political reasons.

Is this because of the Hungarian-speaking population living in this part of Romania? Or a different reason?

 

[The exile]

Is this because of the Hungarian-speaking population living in this part of Romania? Or a different reason?

Exactly that.

 

[alex397]

Exactly that.

Thanks. It has been fascinating learning of the history of this area, which I wasn’t aware of before this trip.

Perhaps the Salonta connection has survived because it’s MAV who are running it.

UPDATE: As I write, I’m travelling on the 09.40 MÁV from Salonta. Obviously, the connection worked fine thankfully. I’m the only passenger on board, crossing an international border. Feels quite bizarre. It’s a single car Class 117 DMU.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Was there any sign of electrification at Oradea and Episcopia Bihor?
That would be a sign of improved cross-border services in the future.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I’m currently in Oradea, and I’ve collected my tickets for the Salonta route.

At Oradea station, on the list of departures it has a sticker with ‘anulat’ (cancelled) stuck on the Püspökladány departures. There was no information about if it will return, or about the rail replacement buses from Episcopia Bihor (the station on the outskirts of Oradea). Though I could have asked the station staff about it, but didn’t do so.

I wanted a bus ride, so thought I’d go and see the situation for myself at Episcopia Bihor, on bus route 11. I timed it to see the possible rail replacement bus, and sure enough there was a Hungarian registered coach waiting for passengers, on the 16.53 departure which 3 people were on board. There are 5 departures a day I believe.

So the RRB only runs from Episcopia railway station? How weird. No explanation as to why it doesn't run to the main station?

It would be interesting to know the future for this, whether it’s due to poor track condition / engineering works or just lack of will for CFR to run it.

I don't know, but both countries will want to continue running the international rail link (if for somewhat different reasons), so I'd say it's very likely due to track or route upgrades.

Is this because of the Hungarian-speaking population living in this part of Romania? Or a different reason?

I'm not sure what the HU-speaking population is these days. Wiki says 20.9%*. Some of the villages near the border were closer to 95% still in the 1990s.

Historically, the city was a major centre of Hungarian culture and commerce. Even after two decades of Romanian rule at the end of the 1930s, a slight majority of the population declared themselves to be Hungarian.

There was just one problem: a large proportion of those were Hungarian-speaking Jews, and, under (Hungarian) rule again from 1940-44, the authorities deported that entire population for mass murder in May-June of 44.

The end result meant a minority of the population spoke Hungarian after the war. The process accelerated by 'social engineering' under the communist regimes, whereby jobs were created to attract ethnic Romanian-speakers to the area, and up and coming HU speakers could only get promotions in Romanian-speaking provinces.

* I do not know about modern censuses in RO, but up to 1990, there is evidence that communist-era censuses were biased to boost the ethnic Romanian numbers, at least according to a guy I met in Sibiu, who had (from memory) Hungarian grandparents on one side. He said the statisticians of the day did not give him the option of declaring himself Hungarian. Not that he would have, just he didn't get the chance.

Perhaps the Salonta connection has survived because it’s MAV who are running it.

UPDATE: As I write, I’m travelling on the 09.40 MÁV from Salonta. Obviously, the connection worked fine thankfully. I’m the only passenger on board, crossing an international border. Feels quite bizarre. It’s a single car Class 117 DMU.

Glad to hear it's still running. Salonta certainly was Hungarian-speaking area, like Oradea, almost certainly allocated to Romania after WW1 because of the defensive value of the rail line from Timsoara-Arad - Satu Mare. Meanwhile Gyula, which had a sizeable Romanian speaking population (not sure of numbers), was allocated to Hungary.

Was there any sign of electrification at Oradea and Episcopia Bihor?
That would be a sign of improved cross-border services in the future.

I am 99% sure the services are planned for improvement, with substantial EU funding involved.

 

[HS2isgood]

Yes, it's supposed to become a fast line between Budapest and Cluj Napoca.

 

[alex397]

Was there any sign of electrification at Oradea and Episcopia Bihor?
That would be a sign of improved cross-border services in the future.

Not that I’m aware, though I didn’t look around long enough to have a proper look as a strange group hanging around there didn’t like the look of me for some reason! There was a large sign about infrastructure upgrades (presumably) with the EU logo. I’ve seen similar signs on the ongoing Timişoara-Arad upgrades.

So the RRB only runs from Episcopia railway station? How weird. No explanation as to why it doesn't run to the main station?

Yes, very odd. It’s certainly no way to keep any passengers! There is a fairly regular 11 bus from there to the main Oradea station though, which I found out for myself. It would be far more passenger friendly just to run the RRB to Oradea.
I suspect they may have lost quite a few passengers permanently to Flixbus if anyone is heading to/from Budapest or Debrecen.

I'm not sure what the HU-speaking population is these days. Wiki says 20.9%*. Some of the villages near the border were closer to 95% still in the 1990s.

Historically, the city was a major centre of Hungarian culture and commerce. Even after two decades of Romanian rule at the end of the 1930s, a slight majority of the population declared themselves to be Hungarian.

There was just one problem: a large proportion of those were Hungarian-speaking Jews, and, under (Hungarian) rule again from 1940-44, the authorities deported that entire population for mass murder in May-June of 44.

The end result meant a minority of the population spoke Hungarian after the war. The process accelerated by 'social engineering' under the communist regimes, whereby jobs were created to attract ethnic Romanian-speakers to the area, and up and coming HU speakers could only get promotions in Romanian-speaking provinces.

* I do not know about modern censuses in RO, but up to 1990, there is evidence that communist-era censuses were biased to boost the ethnic Romanian numbers, at least according to a guy I met in Sibiu, who had (from memory) Hungarian grandparents on one side. He said the statisticians of the day did not give him the option of declaring himself Hungarian. Not that he would have, just he didn't get the chance.

Fascinating to read this, thank you. In regards to the Jewish population, I’ve found it’s tragically a common theme in central/Eastern Europe to find beautiful old synagogues but hardly any local Jewish population living there anymore. A bit off topic I know!

Yes, it's supposed to become a fast line between Budapest and Cluj Napoca.

Interestingly, the Cluj Napoca rail replacement services were well advertised at Oradea Station, and even on Google Maps. Yet, the service in the other direction - nothing!

Well it is good to know there is a long term future for this international line and work is ongoing. It’s just a shame that publicity about it is so poor.

 

[wjhunt78]

Bit late to the discussion, but I do have some experiences to share.

In 2022 and 2023, I went to Romania by train (coming from the Netherlands, where I live). The service running from Budapest to Oradea terminated at Püspökladány on both occasions due to rail works. I had to take a replacement bus there that would take me over the border, but in those occasions it did travel to Oradea main station.

On my second visit to Oradea I also travelled on to Cluj-Napoca by train, on the line that is now apparently out of order because of rail works as well. It was a really nice route I have to say, with charming small stations.

I also used the Oradea-Salonta-Békéscsaba route on one occasion. I had a rather comfortable margin in Salonta (like 15 minutes), so I just went to the station hall and took a few pictures, arriving at the platform for the train to Hungary about 7 minutes before departure. A quite angry border policeman was standing there, saying that I should have come earlier since he needed time to check my passport. Romania was not in Schengen yet, so it had to be done. Luckily I was able to get on the train, otherwise I would indeed have had to wait for 9 hours until the next one. When the policeman came in to give me back my passport, I apologized again and he said it was okay.

Travelling by rail in Romania is really nice though and now that Romania is in the Schengen zone, it also gets a bit easier.

 

[alex397]

Bit late to the discussion, but I do have some experiences to share.

In 2022 and 2023, I went to Romania by train (coming from the Netherlands, where I live). The service running from Budapest to Oradea terminated at Püspökladány on both occasions due to rail works. I had to take a replacement bus there that would take me over the border, but in those occasions it did travel to Oradea main station.

On my second visit to Oradea I also travelled on to Cluj-Napoca by train, on the line that is now apparently out of order because of rail works as well. It was a really nice route I have to say, with charming small stations.

I also used the Oradea-Salonta-Békéscsaba route on one occasion. I had a rather comfortable margin in Salonta (like 15 minutes), so I just went to the station hall and took a few pictures, arriving at the platform for the train to Hungary about 7 minutes before departure. A quite angry border policeman was standing there, saying that I should have come earlier since he needed time to check my passport. Romania was not in Schengen yet, so it had to be done. Luckily I was able to get on the train, otherwise I would indeed have had to wait for 9 hours until the next one. When the policeman came in to give me back my passport, I apologized again and he said it was okay.

Travelling by rail in Romania is really nice though and now that Romania is in the Schengen zone, it also gets a bit easier.

Thanks for sharing, very interesting.

I’d really enjoy visiting Romania again for railway journeys. It does feel like going back in time, with its charming stations, still staffed, and plenty of loco hauled trains.
I was actually impressed with CFR too. My expectations were admittedly not high, and many of the stations and trains are in a dire state. However, all the trains were on time, all staff I encountered were helpful, and their online service seems rather good.

 

[AdamWW]

I’d really enjoy visiting Romania again for railway journeys. It does feel like going back in time, with its charming stations, still staffed, and plenty of loco hauled trains.

Though the number of loco hauled trains will presumably decrease soon given the large number of Coradia Streams on order.