Help with platform numbers/train formations for London Overground (Weaver Line)

[ossocafe]

I've been using RealTimeTrains for early notification of confirmed platform numbers on the Weaver Line between London Liverpool Street and Chingford but this feature has stopped working over the past few months for these specific stations (RTT still works for other stations I use such as Euston).

RTT support are aware of the issue but there is no ETA for a fix.

I've switched to using Traksy (for predicted platform numbers) and the iOS app Trains which seems the next best thing. Are there any other options (iOS app or mobile website) which provide confirmed platforms once known?

It would also be really helpful to know in advance if a train plans to have 4 or 8 carraiges. This info is available at https://tiger.worldline.global/CHINGFD/staff;scrollbar=true but it's not the easiest to digest.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Apologies if this is the wrong forum.

 

[BJames]

Welcome to the forum!

I use the OpenTrainTimes map for Liverpool Street for my Weaver line services if needed, coupled with RealTimeTrains you can see the headcode in the platform.

I don't know if this is helpful as you may already be aware of all this, but as a daily user of the Weaver line including from Liverpool Street, the platforming is usually very consistent (outside of disruption). You can take note of which train is coming in to form your service, Chingford trains are usually formed from the incoming Enfield and Cheshunt services, except in the AM peak where they are generally formed by incoming Chingford trains.

On weekends - Weaver line trains are 4 carriages all day on both Saturday and Sunday, but they will be strengthened to 8 carriages all day if there is a match or event on at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. (I think we increasingly could do with 8 carriages on Saturdays but that is a discussion for elsewhere). Although the season has finished events are ramping up, and I usually check that before I travel as it impacts the train timings on the Enfield/Cheshunt branch: https://www.tottenhamhotspurstadium.com/whats-on/events-calendar/

On weekdays trains are 4 carriages in the middle of the day and after evening peak (again unless there is something at the Spurs stadium in which case they remain 8 carriages until end of service). I unfortunately don't know the time of the last 8 carriage service out to Chingford but I'd just say that sometimes the information on the departure boards incorrectly shows a train as 4 or 8 carriages.

 

[321362]

I've been using RealTimeTrains for early notification of confirmed platform numbers on the Weaver Line between London Liverpool Street and Chingford but this feature has stopped working over the past few months for these specific stations (RTT still works for other stations I use such as Euston).

RTT support are aware of the issue but there is no ETA for a fix.

I've switched to using Traksy (for predicted platform numbers) and the iOS app Trains which seems the next best thing. Are there any other options (iOS app or mobile website) which provide confirmed platforms once known?

It would also be really helpful to know in advance if a train plans to have 4 or 8 carraiges. This info is available at https://tiger.worldline.global/CHINGFD/staff;scrollbar=true but it's not the easiest to digest.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Apologies if this is the wrong forum.

if in doubt, platform 7 at lst!

all Chingford trains form from Cheshunt trains, all cheshunt trains usually form from Town trains and Town trains from Chingford inbounds. as someone who uses the line for commuting, on weekdays cheshunt services are mostly 4 car and weekends enfield town trains are also usually 4, but Chingford services tend to be 8 car throughout the week except a few.

 

[1D54]

All services were 8 car yesterday, certainly between 09:00-11:00. Any reason why?

 

[greatkingrat]

Beyonce concert at Tottenham last night.

 

[ossocafe]

Welcome to the forum!

I use the OpenTrainTimes map for Liverpool Street for my Weaver line services if needed, coupled with RealTimeTrains you can see the headcode in the platform.

I don't know if this is helpful as you may already be aware of all this, but as a daily user of the Weaver line including from Liverpool Street, the platforming is usually very consistent (outside of disruption). You can take note of which train is coming in to form your service, Chingford trains are usually formed from the incoming Enfield and Cheshunt services, except in the AM peak where they are generally formed by incoming Chingford trains.

On weekends - Weaver line trains are 4 carriages all day on both Saturday and Sunday, but they will be strengthened to 8 carriages all day if there is a match or event on at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. (I think we increasingly could do with 8 carriages on Saturdays but that is a discussion for elsewhere). Although the season has finished events are ramping up, and I usually check that before I travel as it impacts the train timings on the Enfield/Cheshunt branch: https://www.tottenhamhotspurstadium.com/whats-on/events-calendar/

On weekdays trains are 4 carriages in the middle of the day and after evening peak (again unless there is something at the Spurs stadium in which case they remain 8 carriages until end of service). I unfortunately don't know the time of the last 8 carriage service out to Chingford but I'd just say that sometimes the information on the departure boards incorrectly shows a train as 4 or 8 carriages.

Thanks for the warm welcome! I tend to know when the trains change from 8 to 4 and back again but sometimes I get it wrong and I try to stand in the right place on the platform for my stop.

You've mentioned the RTT headcode - can you help me understand what that is and what it can tell me please?
I looked at OpenTrainTimes but found it difficult to understand as a newbie so any help with what to look for would be much appreciated.

Thank you again for the reply.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 17:15 ==

if in doubt, platform 7 at lst!

all Chingford trains form from Cheshunt trains, all cheshunt trains usually form from Town trains and Town trains from Chingford inbounds. as someone who uses the line for commuting, on weekdays cheshunt services are mostly 4 car and weekends enfield town trains are also usually 4, but Chingford services tend to be 8 car throughout the week except a few.

I've found that Chinford switches to 4 cars after the morning peak (not sure what time) at least on the way in to Liverpool St. On the way back, they seem to be 4 carriages until about 4:18 when they switch back to 8 (not reliably though) and I've been caught out a few times expecting a shorter train.

 

[BJames]

All services were 8 car yesterday, certainly between 09:00-11:00. Any reason why?

As @greatkingrat says, it was night 2 of Beyonce's concert at the Tottenham Stadium. There's a few more still to go! On these days the service remains 8 car for the whole day regardless of the time of the event/concert/match.

Thanks for the warm welcome! I tend to know when the trains change from 8 to 4 and back again but sometimes I get it wrong and I try to stand in the right place on the platform for my stop.

You've mentioned the RTT headcode - can you help me understand what that is and what it can tell me please?
I looked at OpenTrainTimes but found it difficult to understand as a newbie so any help with what to look for would be much appreciated.

Thank you again for the reply.

If you search for Liverpool Street on RTT and expand to detailed view, you can see the headcodes of each train. See screenshot here, for the current view at Liverpool Street (filtered for London Overground only for ease):



On this line, 2Txx are Chingford services. 2Uxx represents something to/from Enfield and 2Dxx from Cheshunt. When there are extra trains for the football/concerts some alternative codes might come in but you can get an idea of what's coming from where. For example you can see in the image 2U57 forms 2T92, the (slightly delayed) 17:33 to Chingford on Platform 2.

If you to go the OTT map here: https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/geml1

You can see 2T99 confirmed for Platform 3:

2T99 forms 2U68 to Enfield so I'd know a little before it's announced that it's definitely going to the booked platform. The high likelihood is that I'll already be waiting on Platform 3 and you can just keep this open on your phone to check for sure. I know at some places like Euston you have to be careful in case there is a last minute unit swap but this has never happened to me on the Overground at Liverpool Street.

Just to say that this is a useful thing but as with everything it's subject to last minute change/alterations.

 

[ossocafe]

As @greatkingrat says, it was night 2 of Beyonce's concert at the Tottenham Stadium. There's a few more still to go! On these days the service remains 8 car for the whole day regardless of the time of the event/concert/match.


If you search for Liverpool Street on RTT and expand to detailed view, you can see the headcodes of each train. See screenshot here, for the current view at Liverpool Street (filtered for London Overground only for ease):

View attachment 181608

On this line, 2Txx are Chingford services. 2Uxx represents something to/from Enfield and 2Dxx from Cheshunt. When there are extra trains for the football/concerts some alternative codes might come in but you can get an idea of what's coming from where. For example you can see in the image 2U57 forms 2T92, the (slightly delayed) 17:33 to Chingford on Platform 2.

If you to go the OTT map here: https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/geml1

You can see 2T99 confirmed for Platform 3:
View attachment 181609
2T99 forms 2U68 to Enfield so I'd know a little before it's announced that it's definitely going to the booked platform. The high likelihood is that I'll already be waiting on Platform 3 and you can just keep this open on your phone to check for sure. I know at some places like Euston you have to be careful in case there is a last minute unit swap but this has never happened to me on the Overground at Liverpool Street.

Just to say that this is a useful thing but as with everything it's subject to last minute change/alterations.

Really helpful ! Thank you

 

[JonathanH]

I've found that Chinford switches to 4 cars after the morning peak (not sure what time) at least on the way in to Liverpool St. On the way back, they seem to be 4 carriages until about 4:18 when they switch back to 8 (not reliably though) and I've been caught out a few times expecting a shorter train.

Chingford switches earlier / later than Cheshunt and Enfield because the main set of sidings is at Chingford, and every pair has to reach its cycle through Chingford in order to leave units behind.

 

[321362]

Chingford switches earlier / later than Cheshunt and Enfield because the main set of sidings is at Chingford, and every pair has to reach its cycle through Chingford in order to leave units behind.

also, in my experience, it tends to be the busier of the branches, so it's a win/win!

 

[BJames]

also, in my experience, it tends to be the busier of the branches, so it's a win/win!

Check in with any morning commuters boarding at White Hart Lane or Bruce Grove on Tuesday - Thursday AM peak or on a Saturday - they might disagree! Not saying the Chingford branch is quiet by any stretch but Enfield/Cheshunt route is definitely a busy stretch.

I generally find the core section Edmonton-Liverpool Street is very busy, and there are a number of Saturdays now where all of, or almost all of, the seats on a 4 car have already been taken at Bush Hill Park. I'm not a regular traveller on the Cheshunt branch so I'm not sure whether it's busier or quieter than the Enfield section.

I must say though that the 710s made a huge difference - occasionally people are left behind in the morning peak but usually there's just enough space to cram in everyone at Bruce Grove, and a huge number exit at Seven Sisters, i.e. the next station, anyways. I have noticed increasingly people find it difficult to board at White Hart Lane or Bruce Grove on a Saturday in the middle of the day, with the 4 car units trundling up and down the line all day not quite having the space needed now.

 

[Dave W]

I have noticed increasingly people find it difficult to board at White Hart Lane or Bruce Grove on a Saturday in the middle of the day, with the 4 car units trundling up and down the line all day not quite having the space needed now.

A good summation. There's also one 4 car in the morning peak which is usually wedged to the rafters by the time it gets to Edmonton. Obviously operational need is there, but I agree it feels carriage provision is based on outdated expectations (probably partly as a result of growth because of the excellent 710s which hoover up full platforms with ease!)

30 minute intervals for Enfield/Cheshunt is feeling increasingly lacklustre too.

I wonder what the constraints are for the entirety of the Weaver Line... Are Overground squeezing every last drop out of capacity?

 

[BJames]

A good summation. There's also one 4 car in the morning peak which is usually wedged to the rafters by the time it gets to Edmonton. Obviously operational need is there, but I agree it feels carriage provision is based on outdated expectations (probably partly as a result of growth because of the excellent 710s which hoover up full platforms with ease!)

30 minute intervals for Enfield/Cheshunt is feeling increasingly lacklustre too.

I wonder what the constraints are for the entirety of the Weaver Line... Are Overground squeezing every last drop out of capacity?

Which is the morning peak 4 car? I usually only travel after 8 on my way in from Enfield so I'm not sure if there's one prior to this I'm missing, but I am absolutely not surprised that this is rammed...

I think I recall that one of the constraints was historically platforming at Liverpool Street as well as south of Hackney Downs, and that any alterations are depending on Greater Anglia. There was a document somewhere that said some improvements to the timings were expected to take place in December 2024 but this was pushed back to Dec 2025 timetable change. One of the suggestions was to up to 3tph during Saturday afternoons although I am yet to see any form of draft timetable or confirmation that this is going ahead, with the focus more on providing a more even service interval in the peaks between Edmonton and Liverpool Street.

 

[Dave W]

Which is the morning peak 4 car?

It's one around this time - potentially 0804 at Edmonton, off Cheshunt, which is why you may not have seen it!

I've only made the error a couple of times which is why I can't nail it down with certainty! (in any case I mostly have to drive to work these days!)

 

[321362]

A good summation. There's also one 4 car in the morning peak which is usually wedged to the rafters by the time it gets to Edmonton. Obviously operational need is there, but I agree it feels carriage provision is based on outdated expectations (probably partly as a result of growth because of the excellent 710s which hoover up full platforms with ease!)

30 minute intervals for Enfield/Cheshunt is feeling increasingly lacklustre too.

I wonder what the constraints are for the entirety of the Weaver Line... Are Overground squeezing every last drop out of capacity?

That ends up on either the 1528 or 1543 at Edmonton, which is always rammed full of schoolkids!

Having seen how many 710s are at Chingford sdgs at any one time (albeit mostly on wknds) I expect the limiting factor is drivers and/or paths into Liverpool Street preventing them running more services, and there's not a lot you can do other than double units on those few 4 car diagrams.

 

[BJames]

It's one around this time - potentially 0804 at Edmonton, off Cheshunt, which is why you may not have seen it!

I've only made the error a couple of times which is why I can't nail it down with certainty! (in any case I mostly have to drive to work these days!)

Ah that makes sense. I'm usually on the 0812 or 0827 off Bush Hill Park, sometimes one earlier but never been on that service which would indeed explain that - but that time being a 4 car is craziness as I know the 0757 from Bush Hill Park is very busy. I guess the saving grace is that it's only a couple of minutes after the ex-Enfield service and most commuters may know this by now but regardless, far from ideal.