Historic Dieppe Boat Train

[BrianP]

My first trip abroad was in April 1964 to France via Newhaven-Dieppe on a school exchange. A steam boat train met us at Dieppe and took us to Paris St Lazare. It was a late afternoon, early evening service and I think it was non-stop. Would it have gone via Serqueux and Gisors rather than Rouen? Does anyone have some old timetables or other information about this which can satisfy my curiosity?

 

[30907]

The summer 1963 SR timetable says in a footnote "until 19 July and from 9 September runs via Rouen" which seems to imply that the Gisors route was used in high season (the note doesn't appear in 1961, not that that's relevant).
The Gisors route was shorter, so the note might be there to flag up a slightly higher fare.

Anyone out there got a Cook''s Continental TT for around then?

 

[Gordon]

I have checked my 1959 and 1960 SNCF Chaix and my 1968 Cooks. The main daytime boat train went via Rouen in all cases (and with notes in the Chaix stating "train reserved for passengers to/from England").

Funnily enough by the late 70s/early 80s the mid-day boat trains were going via Gisors





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[30907]

Interesting. There's no reference to Rouen in SR summer 1959 either, even though the trains went that way.

I wonder whether the change to the Gisors route around 1963 and then in the 70's was connected with the use of diesels throughout, but it's just a guess. Wikipedia says Paris to Rouen was electrified in 1966, which may or may not be relevant.

 

[BrianP]

Thanks for these responses. Although it is not 100% clear the Gisors route seems most likely given the reference to a change to this route around 1963 (although my locomotive was definitely a steam one not diesel). Presumably the work on electrification via Rouen had started by 1964 and might have encouraged the use of the Gisors route.

 

[coupwotcoup]

In 1988, I went via Newhaven/Dieppe on my first trip to Spain by train...Got the ferry around midnight and train left at silly o'clock. Got into Rouen about 5ish, then a couple of hours later my first TGV experience, which at the time, was rather amazing...

Think it went to Lyon or Montpellier and had to change again there..

If I recall correctly, the TCETT used to describe the route from Dieppe to St Lazare as the most complicated timetable in Europe...

 

[Gordon]

If I recall correctly, the TCETT used to describe the route from Dieppe to St Lazare as the most complicated timetable in Europe...

No, that was the Paris - Cherbourg route





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[coupwotcoup]

Thanks for correcting...twas close (ish). The timetable used to take up about a third of a page and the rest was footnotes etc, etc..

 

[Taunton]

I think the Paris-Cherbourg complexity issues were when there were a limited number of Turbotrains in use in the 1970s-80s. They didn't have enough capacity for travel peaks, so instead of the UK Privatisation approach of "tough", there were loco-hauled Corail trains that supplemented or replaced them for all sorts of peaks, Friday afternoons, August holiday traffic, public holidays, etc. Each was different.

The French have always been good at scheduling for peak traffic, although other aspects can let them down. Having seen on an August Saturday afternoon an arrival at Paris Gare de Lyon of two coupled double-deck TGV Duplexes from Nice, followed about 4 minutes later (fortunately not on the opposite side of the same island) by a relief of the same formation, everyone with holiday bags, the station was still absolutely swamped half an hour later with queues to get in the Metro, no taxis, etc.

 

[Gordon]

I think the Paris-Cherbourg complexity issues were when there were a limited number of Turbotrains in use in the 1970s-80s. They didn't have enough capacity for travel peaks, so instead of the UK Privatisation approach of "tough", there were loco-hauled Corail trains that supplemented or replaced them for all sorts of peaks, Friday afternoons, August holiday traffic, public holidays, etc. Each was different.

To be honest I think the complexity has always been there because of the mixture of business and tourist destinations in that part of Normandy (1960s timetables show a degree of complexity), although the introduction of `turbotrains' (being fixed length) certainly exacerbated the situation.

I have picked out a truly classic footnote from the 1978 TC ITT Table 122, which had footnotes A to LL!

Note AA read: Fris Suns and hols (also Sats on days in note G). Runs on July 13, Aug 14
Note BB read: Daily except days in note AA.


On a pedantic note, many of the loco hauled trains in the time frame quoted were not Corail, but utilised older coaches (precisely because they were often infrequent extras)




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