How could GWR's class 800 series IETs be improved?

[thomalex]

They really need an emergency seat cushion refit. Just the base needs doing but it can’t be left any longer, it ridiculous that on an inter city train you’re expected to sit on a metal bar for hours on end.

 

[irish_rail]

They really need an emergency seat cushion refit. Just the base needs doing but it can’t be left any longer, it ridiculous that on an inter city train you’re expected to sit on a metal bar for hours on end.

Agreed. I'm embarrassed to work them at present. I've always extolled the virtue of the train to my friends family and neighbours , but right now id be embarrassed too with the horrific seat base situation, completely unsuitable for Plymouth to Reading or London journies. I just pity the poor folk of Cornwall travelling up to London! Such a shame as GWR is a good TOC and pretty well run but these seats are now a total farce.

 

[CptCharlee]

I really hope in the future they add a LNER style buffet into the GWR units. The amount of times I've had "stationary trolley in coach x". Might as well just get rid of the trolleys that never really run.

The state of the GWR fleet is shoddy worn out look about 20 years old. Carpets are filthy, seats hard and broken, toliets are always out of service, paint coming off the body shells. The DfT should never ever have had the ability to specify rolling stock, as we are left with this as a result.

 

[YourMum666]

IETs really need a suspension fix, especially the GWR ones as the vibrations on those trains are very worrying

 

[Nick Ashwell]

I really hope in the future they add a LNER style buffet into the GWR units. The amount of times I've had "stationary trolley in coach x". Might as well just get rid of the trolleys that never really run.

The state of the GWR fleet is shoddy worn out look about 20 years old. Carpets are filthy, seats hard and broken, toliets are always out of service, paint coming off the body shells. The DfT should never ever have had the ability to specify rolling stock, as we are left with this as a result.

With the first part Id rather not reduce capacity on services that are already standing room only. Seats are more important than food. Being on a five car out of Newport full you don't want less seats.

Completely agree with the state of them, it's a shocking state of affairs.

IETs really need a suspension fix, especially the GWR ones as the vibrations on those trains are very worrying

Again completely agree, but I suspect that would be a contract change which unfortunately isn't happening any time soon

 

[David Goddard]

How could GWR's class 800 series IETs be improved?

Make a point of the advertised trolley service actually making its way through the train for most of the journey! Have gone all the way to Cardiff and not seen a trolley at all, yet on a recent trip with XC they came through half an hour before the terminus

 

[Master29]

Buffets at least on a 9 car set, better seats, perhaps more powerful diesel engines for better hill climb. All wishful thinking as I doubt any change to the contract is gonna happen. Replace them altogether with the above and better trains......Again wishful thinking.

 

[RailWonderer]

The most nonsensical idea was to fit a kitchen to all units even though you can count the daily services with Pullman dining on your one hand. At most 10 or 20 trains should have had the kitchen, enough to guarantee Pullman Dining on the very few services that offer it. Having a buffet car would have been a far better use of space, especially considering GA on the Norwich IC and Avanti have a buffet on shorter duration services.

The spec as a whole made little sense, and PRM fireproof regulations were a poor excuse for very poorly thought out seating. Every single other country in the world that runs IC trains considers cushioned seats yet the UK thinks it is appropriate to put hard wafer thin seats on trains. Those IETs belong at Sims or Booths and they should just start over. The only good thing about those IETs is the legroom. Siemens made their bogies heavier to make their trains ride smoother on poor UK track as they were testing them (and contributed to the higher cost) but on IC services this is a 40 year investment we are talking about so would have been good to have.

 

[GoneSouth]

I just pity the poor folk of Cornwall travelling up to London! Such a shame as GWR is a good TOC and pretty well run but these seats are now a total farce.

5 hours sat on a lump of concrete or metal bar, or just fly.

I know which I’d do on comfort, cost and speed grounds.

yes, it’s a flippant answer and flying isn’t an option for all, but for those given a genuine choice it would be fly for me.

• The lighting is horrifically bright
• The seating is horrifically uncomfortable (apart from legroom)
• The toilets are poorly designed and unreliable
• They shudder horrendously at high speed between Reading and Swindon
• Not their fault but they run on diesel over most of the network, electrification would definitely improve the experience onboard these trains
• Did I mention the seats
• The combination of 5, 9, and 10 coach trains is both a lottery and confusing for passengers
• Oh, the seats aren’t worth sitting on

On the positive side

• The seat reservation light/screen system is the best we’ve had to date in the UK
• They are impressive technically from a standing start the acceleration is amazing
• The staff are some of the best on the network, very helpful
• The door between the vestibule and the passenger seating is back to using a pressure pad and not that utterly ridiculous timed button used on the Voyagers (whoever designed that should never work in train design again)
• They don’t smell like the old HSTs (think there was historically a lot of burning smells when braking)

Overall they are technically miles better than what they replaced whilst also being terrible at providing a comfortable passenger experience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Replace the seat bases with the different design used by TfW would be the main thing. I quite like them otherwise, the legroom in particular is excellent.

Sure, you could do more, but to
me that is and always was the main issue.

 

[YourMum666]

5 hours sat on a lump of concrete or metal bar, or just fly.

I know which I’d do on comfort, cost and speed grounds.

yes, it’s a flippant answer and flying isn’t an option for all, but for those given a genuine choice it would be fly for me.

• The lighting is horrifically bright
• The seating is horrifically uncomfortable (apart from legroom)
• The toilets are poorly designed and unreliable
• They shudder horrendously at high speed between Reading and Swindon
• Not their fault but they run on diesel over most of the network, electrification would definitely improve the experience onboard these trains
• Did I mention the seats
• The combination of 5, 9, and 10 coach trains is both a lottery and confusing for passengers
• Oh, the seats aren’t worth sitting on

On the positive side

• The seat reservation light/screen system is the best we’ve had to date in the UK
• They are impressive technically from a standing start the acceleration is amazing
• The staff are some of the best on the network, very helpful
• The door between the vestibule and the passenger seating is back to using a pressure pad and not that utterly ridiculous timed button used on the Voyagers (whoever designed that should never work in train design again)
• They don’t smell like the old HSTs (think there was historically a lot of burning smells when braking)

Overall they are technically miles better than what they replaced whilst also being terrible at providing a comfortable passenger experience.

the shuddering issue around the reading to swindon area isn't only an IET issue, i remember the same thing happening on a HST i went on about 4 years ago

 

[Western 52]

The seats have been mentioned many times in various threads as being too hard, but they also have another issue. The electric sockets are daftly located between and under the seats, so you end up trying to fiddle about to use them. Not good, especially when you don't know the person sat next to you! So, move the sockets, maybe relocate to the back of the seats for those sitting behind.

 

[XAM2175]

The spec as a whole made little sense, and PRM fireproof regulations were a poor excuse for very poorly thought out seating.

On a point of pedantry - PRM relates to accessibility and is entirely different to fire safety.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Easy - Buffet car, better seats, nicer lighting

 

[Blindtraveler]

0 honestly, scrap them and start again. We have plenty of people quite capable of building decent intercity trains, this is not a decent intercity train.

 

[Mikey C]

At a minimum, surely the current state of the seats is unacceptable contractually, assuming that Hitachi have to make available trains available to GWR in a useable condition?

 

[Benjwri]

At a minimum, surely the current state of the seats is unacceptable contractually, assuming that Hitachi have to make available trains available to GWR in a useable condition?

Yes but either GWR aren’t reporting it so Hitachi’s KPI score isn’t being affected, Hitachi has decided the lost of money due to the lower KPI is better than fixing it, or they are trying to work out a long term solution. Unfortunately it isn’t as easy as just buying new cushions, and from deciding they’re being replaced with a different type to doing it could take months or years.

 

[Energy]

Yes but either GWR aren’t reporting it so Hitachi’s KPI score isn’t being affected, Hitachi has decided the lost of money due to the lower KPI is better than fixing it, or they are trying to work out a long term solution. Unfortunately it isn’t as easy as just buying new cushions, and from deciding they’re being replaced with a different type to doing it could take months or years.

GWR and FG upper management are aware...

Yes, as are FG’s senior management.

Getting Hitachi to do something about it is “interesting”.

The DfT also changed the seat spec to a cheaper model from the original Hitachi wanted though Hitachi should have included the cost for additional cushions into the contract.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

From the above post it sounds like if the seats are to be changed then it won’t be Hitachi paying for them. And the way the TOCs are run these days means I imagine the DfT won’t pay for it either. So they’ll probably be like this for some time.

 

[Snow1964]

From the above post it sounds like if the seats are to be changed then it won’t be Hitachi paying for them. And the way the TOCs are run these days means I imagine the DfT won’t pay for it either. So they’ll probably be like this for some time.

This is where railway group standards are wrong
Specify crash worthiness for 1 in many years event but,
Ignore fact might be causing spine damage to users on lots of journeys, clearly injuring occupants is low priority.

 

[irish_rail]

I guess GWR are reluctant to press Hitachi too much , as taking sets out of service for seat repairs will mean less IETs available for service. In an ideal world, a couple more Castles would be kept to cover for a couple of years or however long it would take to fix the seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess GWR are reluctant to press Hitachi too much , as taking sets out of service for seat repairs will mean less IETs available for service. In an ideal world, a couple more Castles would be kept to cover for a couple of years or however long it would take to fix the seats.

Surely once you'd ordered in the TfW base cushions (which appear to solve the problem) and new covers you'd be able to do one a night while other stuff was being done at the same time? There's nothing wrong with the frames, the issue is the cushions.

 

[Energy]

Surely once you'd ordered in the TfW base cushions (which appear to solve the problem) and new covers you'd be able to do one a night while other stuff was being done at the same time? There's nothing wrong with the frames, the issue is the cushions.

Indeed, I'd expect the issue to be who pays for the new cushions.

 

[Benjwri]

Surely once you'd ordered in the TfW base cushions (which appear to solve the problem) and new covers you'd be able to do one a night while other stuff was being done at the same time? There's nothing wrong with the frames, the issue is the cushions.

Or even just a coach a night, doesn’t have to be fast.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

5 hours sat on a lump of concrete or metal bar, or just fly.

I know which I’d do on comfort, cost and speed grounds.

yes, it’s a flippant answer and flying isn’t an option for all, but for those given a genuine choice it would be fly for me.

• The lighting is horrifically bright
• The seating is horrifically uncomfortable (apart from legroom)

Whereas economy class in planes is renowned for extreme comfort, yes.

• The toilets are poorly designed and unreliable

Plane toilets are beautiful and fragrant and one of the most pleasant ways to spend a journey. I always look forward to my visit to a plane toilet.

• They shudder horrendously at high speed between Reading and Swindon

Planes have a super-smooth ride and there is never any shuddering as a result of atmospheric conditions.

• Not their fault but they run on diesel over most of the network, electrification would definitely improve the experience onboard these trains

Planes now all run on electric power or bionic duckweed, making them a much more environmentally friendly alternative to diesel trains.

• Did I mention the seats
• The combination of 5, 9, and 10 coach trains is both a lottery and confusing for passengers

One of the great things about planes is that you always know exactly what type of aircraft you'll be flying on when you book!

 

[XAM2175]

This is where railway group standards are wrong
Specify crash worthiness for 1 in many years event but,
Ignore fact might be causing spine damage to users on lots of journeys, clearly injuring occupants is low priority.

I'm sorry, who is suffering spine damage?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whereas economy class in planes is renowned for extreme comfort, yes.

Plane toilets are beautiful and fragrant and one of the most pleasant ways to spend a journey. I always look forward to my visit to a plane toilet.

Planes have a super-smooth ride and there is never any shuddering as a result of atmospheric conditions.

Planes now all run on electric power or bionic duckweed, making them a much more environmentally friendly alternative to diesel trains.

One of the great things about planes is that you always know exactly what type of aircraft you'll be flying on when you book!

The thing is, planes are very fast and also often (but not always) quite cheap. That for most people outweighs all of that.

 

[GoneSouth]

Whereas economy class in planes is renowned for extreme comfort, yes.

Plane toilets are beautiful and fragrant and one of the most pleasant ways to spend a journey. I always look forward to my visit to a plane toilet.

Planes have a super-smooth ride and there is never any shuddering as a result of atmospheric conditions.

Planes now all run on electric power or bionic duckweed, making them a much more environmentally friendly alternative to diesel trains.

One of the great things about planes is that you always know exactly what type of aircraft you'll be flying on when you book!

Yes, economy flights are not the most comfortable experience, but on the route in question they take 1 rather than 5 hours and I can manage an hour without needing a toilet

 

[Irascible]

If you're going from Newquay you end up at either Gatwick or Stansted, so factor in another half hour and a bit. The dubious joys of Ryanair to Stansted or Eastern to Gatwick... it's quite a thing when they're both seen as more comfortable than a train, yikes. Exeter doesn't have a London route atm but then you can hop on a 159 & relax.

1 - Seats, 2 - Lights, 3 - new suspension before it completely wrecks the trains ( given it was named as a partial cause for the cracking, that is not hyperbole ).

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I'm sorry, who is suffering spine damage?

I'm not sure what his source is, but I remember seeing a BBC London News item a few years ago that the new Thameslink trains were causing spine damage for MML commuters or something like that.