How do you improve the station and services into Crewe now that HS2 isn't running there?

[maxk2510]

Crewe has definitely gotten the worst of both worlds following the government's announcements: no HS2 and limited-to-no Network North projects (excluding the north Wales electrification). It's a shame because a lot of the town's future redevelopment was resting on phase 2a/b being complete and running through the town but now this isn't happening, it goes to show that Crewe needs something else to make it thrive.
I'd go with:
Complete rebuild of the station
Reopening of Platform 13
Reopening of independent line tunnels underneath the station
Potential multi-modal hub built at station (current bus provision at the station is abysmal)
Any more suggestions?

 

[jfollows]

You don’t preclude it, but it’s needed bay platforms for terminating services from Manchester for a long time; the layout removed the routes to the existing bays when the station was remodelled but realistically these crossed too many running lines anyway, but bay platforms accessible from the Independent lines on the west side of the station would be good.
The Independent lines aren’t closed, but they’re not currently usable by passenger trains other than in special circumstances such as railtours.

 

[The Planner]

Crewe has definitely gotten the worst of both worlds following the government's announcements: no HS2 and limited-to-no Network North projects (excluding the north Wales electrification). It's a shame because a lot of the town's future redevelopment was resting on phase 2a/b being complete and running through the town but now this isn't happening, it goes to show that Crewe needs something else to make it thrive.
I'd go with:
Complete rebuild of the station
Reopening of Platform 13
Reopening of independent line tunnels underneath the station
Potential multi-modal hub built at station (current bus provision at the station is abysmal)
Any more suggestions?

There are already plans for the renewal of Crewe, but those will get significantly altered now HS2 is canned. Not sure what you mean by the Independent line tunnels reopening. They aren't closed and the Independent line resignalling in progress will make them passenger standard (albeit at the very low line speed)

 

[Nottingham59]

The Independent lines aren’t closed, but they’re not currently usable by passenger trains other than in special circumstances such as railtours.

Why aren't they usable, please?

 

[jfollows]

Why aren't they usable, please?

They're not usable in the same way as goods lines aren't usable by passenger trains, with permissive signalling and lower standards such as no AWS. They only lead into freight yards currently so there's no reason for passenger trains to use them currently anyway.
maxk2510 implied they're closed, which they aren't. They're used for freight trains, there is one path each hour in each direction to Manchester via Wilmslow and Styal for example.

EDIT The Planner points out that this will change.
The Manchester bay problem is especially acute now (and for a number of years) that two trains each hour terminate and reverse in Crewe. From memory, one of them is timetabled to run away to the reversing siding on the north side of the station to free up the platform. Having one or two bay platforms accessible from the Manchester line seems to be an important upgrade, however it's achieved, and one way might be to use the Independent lines to go underneath to the west side of the station.

 

[maxk2510]

Would a platform underground on the independent line be a solution then? Although that seems far too technical/expensive for Cheshire East council to commit to

 

[jfollows]

Would a platform underground on the independent line be a solution then? Although that seems far too technical/expensive for Cheshire East council to commit to

Why would CEC even pay 1p for this?

 

[The Planner]

The Manchester bay problem is especially acute now (and for a number of years) that two trains each hour terminate and reverse in Crewe. From memory, one of them is timetabled to run away to the reversing siding on the north side of the station to free up the platform. Having one or two bay platforms accessible from the Manchester line seems to be an important upgrade, however it's achieved, and one way might be to use the Independent lines to go underneath to the west side of the station.

No provision for that is in the Crewe plans. You cannot get from the Independents to the platforms either. You would likely have to get rid of the Chester Independent to do it.

 

[jfollows]

No provision for that is in the Crewe plans. You cannot get from the Independents to the platforms either. You would likely have to get rid of the Chester Independent to do it.

I’d say that’s a price worth paying, but thank you for the clarification and I agree that it’s not a simple solution and good to know that it’s not in the plans (in the sense of good to know, not that it’s a good thing!).

 

[maxk2510]

What actually are the plans for the "Crewe hub"? I get that a new transfer deck would still be useful but all the other bits seems purely aesthetic now than anything

 

[The Planner]

What actually are the plans for the "Crewe hub"? I get that a new transfer deck would still be useful but all the other bits seems purely aesthetic now than anything

Transfer deck wasn't funded, the layout got ripped to shreds and rebuilt, hardly aesthetic. This video is going to be out of date now, but from 14 minutes onwards shows the plan.

 

[irish_rail]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I really like Crewe station. I always prefer to change there as opposed to say Birmingham New Street.

 

[jfollows]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I really like Crewe station. I always prefer to change there as opposed to say Birmingham New Street.

I agree with you, there are plenty of places to stand and watch what's going on, it's easy to change platforms because there are two footbridges and the southern one is relatively little used, there are refreshment areas of varying sorts and there are two gents toilets within easy reach.

 

[AndrewE]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I really like Crewe station.

Me too. I like that it is generally open, airy and quite light, helped by the cream/white brickwork.
The worst thing is the number of diesel trains, leading to voyager and DMU exhaust convecting up the stairways into the bridge and concourse. That's not the station's fault though!

 

[adamedwards]

The minimum works at Crewe should be to create an up and down platform able to take a 400m train. My logic is this: With HS2 phase 1 ending at Lichfield, capacity from there to Crewe is at a premium, so some trains will need to run as 2 x 200m units coupled, splitting to then head north to stations with shorter platforms. Crewe is the logical place to do this. For example, we might have the London - Crewe - Wilmslow - Manchester combined with a train to Liverpool or Blackpool North. Of course there's a trade off of journey time v coupling, but as HS2 gains plenty, the journeys overall will still be quicker.

Anything more than this work should wait until a new government decides what the real future for HS2 is. Phase 2a (Lichfield to Crewe) would surely be a quick win reinsatatement for any new government wanting to show it cares about rail to the north of the UK and vital for freight capacity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The minimum works at Crewe should be to create an up and down platform able to take a 400m train. My logic is this: With HS2 phase 1 ending at Lichfield, capacity from there to Crewe is at a premium, so some trains will need to run as 2 x 200m units coupled, splitting to then head north to stations with shorter platforms. Crewe is the logical place to do this. For example, we might have the London - Crewe - Wilmslow - Manchester combined with a train to Liverpool or Blackpool North. Of course there's a trade off of journey time v coupling, but as HS2 gains plenty, the journeys overall will still be quicker.

This assumes HS2 sticks with 400m trains - there are very strong reasons not to, though there are reasons for as well, namely that it would be an option to increase some frequencies without using more paths out of OOC or Euston.

 

[adamedwards]

Indeed, but as 54 x 200m trains is what's been ordered, it will, I assume, be expensive to change this. Also, assuming they change this fleet to 11 car units and then the new govt goes ahead with HS2 as planned, either all the stations have to be even longer or there will be a whole fleet of spare carriages when the 11 cars have to be shrunk back to fit.

Just shows yet again what happens when politicians meddle in projects and how costs are driven up!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, but as 54 x 200m trains is what's been ordered, it will, I assume, be expensive to change this.

Not necessarily. There have been reshuffles like that before, for instance West Midlands Trains did so with the 730 order, specifying a larger number of 3 car units and a smaller number of 5s following COVID due to changed loadings. The number of vehicles was reduced slightly to pay for the extra cabs.

Also, assuming they change this fleet to 11 car units and then the new govt goes ahead with HS2 as planned, either all the stations have to be even longer or there will be a whole fleet of spare carriages when the 11 cars have to be shrunk back to fit.

Absolutely no reason why 11 car units couldn't operate on "full" HS2, I've long questioned the wisdom of 400m as a length. But there is another non-wasteful option - extend them to single 400m units with additional vehicles, and use them on the services that won't split and join, i.e. the 3 Birminghams and the 3 Manchesters.

 

[JamesT]

Indeed, but as 54 x 200m trains is what's been ordered, it will, I assume, be expensive to change this. Also, assuming they change this fleet to 11 car units and then the new govt goes ahead with HS2 as planned, either all the stations have to be even longer or there will be a whole fleet of spare carriages when the 11 cars have to be shrunk back to fit.

Just shows yet again what happens when politicians meddle in projects and how costs are driven up!

The expectation if HS2 was implemented in full was that there would be a second rolling stock order to provide enough trains. So if you're switching back to 8 carriage trains then you can take the 'spare' ones from the 11s and put them into the new units.