HST headlight redesign

[Wapps]

Does anyone know why the HST headlights were redesigned to be small circular lights rather than the much more attractive and modern look that they had before that? Such a shame they did that, whoever it was that thought it a good idea.

 

[MCR247]

I think it comes down to opinion, as I’ve always thought the newer light clusters looked so much more modern. I remember first seeing them on a GNER HST and thinking it made them look so much better than the MML HSTs

 

[irish_rail]

Does anyone know why the HST headlights were redesigned to be small circular lights rather than the much more attractive and modern look that they had before that? Such a shame they did that, whoever it was that thought it a good idea.

I agree, the old style light clusters looked far far better, the newer style seem tacky in comparison although I have no doubt they are far more hard wearing and brighter.

 

[43096]

Does anyone know why the HST headlights were redesigned to be small circular lights rather than the much more attractive and modern look that they had before that? Such a shame they did that, whoever it was that thought it a good idea.

There were two reasons: replacing obsolete parts with more reliable kit, and making them less susceptible to impact damage by having the lenses as small as possible.

 

[uvarvu]

Same thing applies to the 69. There was nothing wrong with the previous clusters.

 

[D365]

Does anyone know why the HST headlights were redesigned to be small circular lights rather than the much more attractive and modern look that they had before that? Such a shame they did that, whoever it was that thought it a good idea.

Component obsolescence, probably.

”Whoever it was that thought it a good idea” - the vehicle owners.

 

[DarloRich]

Does anyone know why the HST headlights were redesigned to be small circular lights rather than the much more attractive and modern look that they had before that? Such a shame they did that, whoever it was that thought it a good idea.

Looks like someone forgot a key stakeholder engagement session!

Component obsolescence, probably.

”Whoever it was that thought it a good idea” - the vehicle owners.

How dare they try to make something cheaper, safer and more reliable. Have they no thought for aesthetics?

 

[43096]

Have they no thought for aesthetics?

Yes: the new ones look better!

 

[Wapps]

Looks like someone forgot a key stakeholder engagement session!

How dare they try to make something cheaper, safer and more reliable. Have they no thought for aesthetics?

I am sure the existing look could have been retained while replacing the lights underneath. My objection is to the covering up of the panel/surround such that we now have just circular holes for the lights and not the strip-like panel/surround.

Aesthetics is of course important otherwise we might as well just do everything on a functional basis, eg like the buildings of the post war era.

 

[DarloRich]

My objection is to the covering up of the panel/surround such that we now have just circular holes for the lights and not the strip-like panel/surround.

imo it isn't worth comment or worry.

 

[Wapps]

imo it isn't worth comment or worry.

Imo it is - SKG’s fabulous design has been butchered.

 

[DarloRich]

Imo it is.

fair enough but I suspect some people have bigger fish to fry!

 

[43096]

Imo it is - SKG’s fabulous design has been butchered.

It hasn’t. It really hasn’t.

 

[fgwrich]

Imo it is - SKG’s fabulous design has been butchered.

It isn't, and even Sir Ken himself has no objection to it, agreeing that they continue to make the HST look smart and modern.

Also, the newer set up is far nicer and better to work with than the older set up - The new design uses smaller disks of toughened glass, so very very rarely breakable and a lot more clearer. The old original design uses a large piece of perspex which would often either fog up with rain water / washer fluid or the fluids of something else (see next comment) and would often find itself subject to regular damage from bird strikes / vegetation damage or simply falling off due to corrosion / wind resistance / lack of maintenance etc. Smaller Glass sealed lenses vs Large Expensive Curved perspex. I know where my money's at.

 

[Royston Vasey]

More modern? White plastic lamp housing with dim bulbs, faced by a big chunky piece of smoked brown perspex with chrome edging?

It's about as late 70s as you can get...

 

[AM9]

More modern? White plastic lamp housing with dim bulbs, faced by a big chunky piece of smoked brown perspex with chrome edging?

It's about as late 70s as you can get...

So which type gives the best light? (Note, there's no point in mentally comparing the new design with what one might remember of how good the original HST lights were when the trains were new).

 

[43096]

It isn't, and even Sir Ken himself has no objection to it, agreeing that they continue to make the HST look smart and modern.

Also, the newer set up is far nicer and better to work with than the older set up - The new design uses smaller disks of toughened glass, so very very rarely breakable and a lot more clearer. The old original design uses a large piece of perspex which would often either fog up with rain water / washer fluid or the fluids of something else (see next comment) and would often find itself subject to regular damage from bird strikes / vegetation damage or simply falling off due to corrosion / wind resistance / lack of maintenance etc. Smaller Glass sealed lenses vs Large Expensive Curved perspex. I know where my money's at.

Add to that the problem of screwing the old type into the bodywork on the all-too-frequent occasions they needed to change. There’s only so many times you can do that.

 

[Royston Vasey]

So which type gives the best light? (Note, there's no point in mentally comparing the new design with what one might remember of how good the original HST lights were when the trains were new).

Obviously the new ones, which in my opinion also look more modern (fluid shaped, bright LEDs not covered with a big sheet of perspex).

To me they're like comparing the headlights of a 1982 Ford Sierra vs a 2021 Ford Mondeo.

 

[CW2]

I believe that to change a light bulb, the original design required you to unscrew all the screws holding in place the perspex(?) cover, which could take quite a long time. Some of the damage to these covers was as a result of people taking a hammer to the perspex to break through to the defective light bulb to change it in a hurry. So the original design may have looked good (in a 1970s sort of way) but was functionally poor. The new design may lack the flair of the original, but does its job much better.

 

[MCR247]

I’m genuinely surprised at this thread. I expected people to prefer the original (for being the original) but to say the original design looks more modern is something else.

Having said, the redesign with the 2 lights (as found on XC, GWR, EC sets) looked much better than the 3 lights as found on the EMT HSTs

 

[AM9]

Obviously the new ones, which in my opinion also look more modern (fluid shaped, bright LEDs not covered with a big sheet of perspex).
To me they're like comparing the headlights of a 1982 Ford Sierra vs a 2021 Ford Mondeo.

I believe that to change a light bulb, the original design required you to unscrew all the screws holding in place the perspex(?) cover, which could take quite a long time. Some of the damage to these covers was as a result of people taking a hammer to the perspex to break through to the defective light bulb to change it in a hurry. So the original design may have looked good (in a 1970s sort of way) but was functionally poor. The new design may lack the flair of the original, but does its job much better.

So it looks like an obsolete design safety feature which deteriorates within the life of the equipment that it is fitted to, is a maintenance liability and gives inferior performance to a standard modern fitting, is being upheld for cosmetic reasons on a utility vehicle most of which will be razor blades quite soon. Mmmmmm.. There I was, thinking that these trains were for transporting people safely, not eye candy for enthusiasts.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I'm in the original light clusters group and out of the modern ones, prefer the 3 light clusters because something about the 2 light clusters seems off. They look bugeyeish.

 

[D365]

So it looks like an obsolete design safety feature which deteriorates within the life of the equipment that it is fitted to, is a maintenance liability and gives inferior performance to a standard modern fitting, is being upheld for cosmetic reasons on a utility vehicle most of which will be razor blades quite soon. Mmmmmm.. There I was, thinking that these trains were for transporting people safely, not eye candy for enthusiasts.

As @DarloRich points out - the engineering specialists clearly didn’t complete full and proper stakeholder engagement!

 

[AM9]

As @DarloRich points out - the engineering specialists clearly didn’t complete full and proper stakeholder engagement!

They are just so 'off message'.

 

[43096]

They are just so 'off message'.

Perhaps just direct all those wanting the originals to Crewe Heritage Centre to foam over 43018. The railway can concentrate on provide a public transport service.

 

[Wapps]

I had no realisation I would trigger such emotions and upset!

To me, the new design is like the Rover 200 before it’s makeover, renamed the Rover 25 (and the old design is like the Rover 200/25 after its makeover). Those cars are now on the scraphead of course, much like almost all HSTs soon will be.

 

[MCR247]

I'm in the original light clusters group and out of the modern ones, prefer the 3 light clusters because something about the 2 light clusters seems off. They look bugeyeish.

The EMT/EMR sets had 3 lights in their modern ones

 

[AM9]

I had no realisation I would trigger such emotions and upset!

To me, the new design is like the Rover 200 before it’s makeover, renamed the Rover 25 (and the old design is like the Rover 200/25 after its makeover). Those cars are now on the scraphead of course, much like almost all HSTs soon will be.

To me, the redesign is a functional improvement on a piece of safety equipment that allows safer use of the vehicle. If aesthetics are allowed to drive safety considerations on a public transport system, the the lunatics certainly have taken over the asylum!

 

[fgwrich]

Add to that the problem of screwing the old type into the bodywork on the all-too-frequent occasions they needed to change. There’s only so many times you can do that.

Indeed. Was looking at a PC a few weeks ago receiving a light cluster change, despite not having to screw the new set up into the same piece of bodywork, the framework on one side had more holes in it than a piece of Swiss cheese. The old design certainly didn’t do the fibreglass any good.

 

[pdeaves]

I had no realisation I would trigger such emotions and upset!

I had no idea that there are different designs! Thus, in one sense, the difference is so small to be un-noticeable (as opposed to, say, the new cab roof lights on the 'Pullman' power cars).