I messed up real bad. How long does it take to recieve a fine/prosecution letter?

[loopy]

Yesterday (24th Feb), I was caught on the GWR by ticket inspectors for not having a valid ticket. I was buying the ticket probably around 10 min before departure. That was when they came and I panicked and told them the truth that I didn't have the ticket and was buying it. He then asked me how I even got inside the station without a ticket and I told him I came from another train (elizabeth line). I didn't have a ticket for that either nor did I tap. He asked for proof I had a ticket and I didn't so I refused.

I was also caught for this on that train and panicked and scanned my card when tbe inspector came to check tickets/oysters. Tfl has not charged me for this yet, I'm not sure why because thought I would get charged max fare at night.

But yeah the GWR inspector told me he is reporting this to GWR and they will investigate my entire journey with the TFL. He took my name, address and date of birth. He kept telling me that I was being recorded by his body camera. He then printed a ticket for me to use on the GWR and I completed my journey.

What I did was very wrong and I will never ever do this again in the future now. This is really stressing me out and I've been crying ever since this happened. I don't want to go to court and get a criminal record.

I'm wondering how long it would take to get the letter and would this be from the GWR as well as the TFL? I'm so scared. Please help me.

 

[AlterEgo]

We need a lot more information to assist. From the pinned post -

Please bear in mind the following, when asking for advice in this section:

• We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example:
  • The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey
  • The stations* where you changed trains (if applicable);
  • If you presented a ticket(s), the information* stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
  • Details of any Railcard(s) held;
  • When and where ticket(s) were purchased, including whether this was prior to the journey commencing;
  • What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
  • Upload copies of any paperwork (with personal details redacted) with your post.
• We need to know what outcome(s) you would consider satisfactory

 

[John R]

Your post is very confusing. For example:-

I was buying the ticket probably around 10 min before departure

isn't usually a problem. Can you take a deep breath and explain exactly what you were doing nice and clearly, using the points @AlterEgo sets out.

One thing that you may need to bear in mind is if you have done something like this before then examination of any ticketing account you use (including Oyster) may highlight other offences to the investigation team.

 

[loopy]

Hi, I travelled from southall to Reading and then reading to guildford. I got into southall with a ticket to hayes and harlington (1st stop after southall). But I actually used it to board the train to get to reading. Then I was in reading and there are no barriers when I exit the platform. I went to my next platform to get the GWR to guilford. I did not have a ticket for this either. When I was in the train I was buying the ticket and then inspectors came and asked for my ticket. I said I don't have and I'm buying it now because there's still 10 minutes left till the train departures. Then one of the inspectors told me he has a body camera and questioned how I got in the train nd when I'm coming from and my method of payment. I said I came from southall. He asked if I have proof and I said no. I jsut said I tapped used monzo. ( This was was a lie and I only tapped my monzo card when the inspector on the elizabeth line asked me to show me ticket or scan oyster/card. ).

The inspector told me to step out the train and asked me for details and proof. At first I said I don't have anything but I heard him whisper police to this colleague I think. I then opened the monzo app and gave hum my full name, address and DOB. He then told me he is reporting me to the GWR and they will send me a letter with a fine. I asked him hiw much will the fine be and he said he doesn't know because the TFL will have to be involved as I refused to provide information about my journey from southall to Reading. He then printed me a paper ticket to use on the GWR from reading to guilford.

I hate myself for being so dumb and not buying tickets in the first place. I wanted to know if they would most likely take me to court or make me pay money?

Your post is very confusing. For example:-



isn't usually a problem. Can you take a deep breath and explain exactly what you were doing nice and clearly, using the points @AlterEgo sets out.

One thing that you may need to bear in mind is if you have done something like this before then examination of any ticketing account you use (including Oyster) may highlight other offences to the investigation team.

I have done this before with my other debit card (scanned the card in the train when the inspector came with the scanner). I never tapped in or out and was charged later.

Sorry for the confusion, I wrote a reply again. But basically in summary I travelled from soutball to reading without a valid ticket. On that train an Inspector came to check for tickets which I didn't even have. So i scanned my bank card and then he left. Then I sat on the GWR at reading station to go to guildford. Got caught not having a ticket/buying a ticket and was questioned. Was told to wait for a letter.

 

[John R]

They will write to you and so long as you are truthful, apologetic, and promise very sincerely not to do it again then you should be offered an out of court settlement, which will cost you some money (a lot more than if you had just bought a ticket). And as I noted earlier, if they find other tickets from Southall to Hayes & H then expect them to want you to pay for your journeys there too.

How were you planning on getting out at Guildford by the way?

 

[loopy]

They will write to you and so long as you are truthful, apologetic, and promise very sincerely not to do it again then you should be offered an out of court settlement, which will cost you some money (a lot more than if you had just bought a ticket). And as I noted earlier, if they find other tickets from Southall to Hayes & H then expect them to want you to pay for your journeys there too.

How were you planning on getting out at Guildford by the way?

I was wondering will I recieve separate letters from TFL and GWR. Or only GWR as that's when I was actually caught by the gwr inspector.

I was planning to buy a ticket from reading to guilford while I was on the train.

To be honest, I've done this in the past many times. Very stupid and wrong of me.

Also, is there a maximum amount of fine I could be charged. I have like an extra £1000 but the rest of my money needs to go to my rent and future train tickets. I can't afford to pay anything more than £1000. Sorry for all the questions.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

How were you planning on getting out at Guildford by the way?

According to his account, he was intending to buy a ticket at Reading before the train departed.

It would be legitimate to travel contactless from Southall to Reading and split at Reading. That gets someone on the platforms at Reading without going through the barriers. Hence presumably the questions about what ticket was used to travel to Reading.

 

[jfollows]

I was wondering will I recieve separate letters from TFL and GWR. Or only GWR as that's when I was actually caught by the gwr inspector.

I was planning to buy a ticket from reading to guilford while I was on the train.

To be honest, I've done this in the past many times. Very stupid and wrong of me.

Also, is there a maximum amount of fine I could be charged. I have like an extra £1000 but the rest of my money needs to go to my rent and future train tickets. I can't afford to pay anything more than £1000. Sorry for all the questions.

If it’s an out of court settlement then it’s not a fine, it’s an amount to cover the loss to the railways.
Something like £150 admin fee plus anytime single fare for every fare avoided.
That’s “only” under £200 in total if the only fare avoided was the one you mention. But correspondingly more if analysis of your purchase history shows it.

There’s no maximum, it’s down to what you and GWR agree between you.

 

[John R]

According to his account, he was intending to buy a ticket at Reading before the train departed.

It would be legitimate to travel contactless from Southall to Reading and split at Reading. That gets someone on the platforms at Reading without going through the barriers. Hence presumably the questions about what ticket was used to travel to Reading.

I could equally interpret the account

I was buying the ticket probably around 10 min before departure. That was when they came and I panicked and told them the truth that I didn't have the ticket and was buying it.

as they were buying it when they saw the revenue staff approaching.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I travelled from southall to Reading and then reading to guildford. I got into southall with a ticket to hayes and harlington (1st stop after southall). But I actually used it to board the train to get to reading. Then I was in reading (...) I went to my next platform to get the GWR to guilford. I did not have a ticket for this either. When I was in the train I was buying the ticket and then inspectors came and asked for my ticket. I said I don't have and I'm buying it now because there's still 10 minutes left till the train departures. Then one of the inspectors (...) questioned how I got in the train nd when I'm coming from and my method of payment. I said I came from southall. (...) I only tapped my monzo card when the inspector on the elizabeth line asked me to show me ticket or scan oyster/card. ).

What the OP has done is irregular (the general rule is that you're meant to pay for your journey before you start it) but I think we need an expert to say whether there's actually an offence here. My thoughts are
- for the Southall - Reading leg, OP attempted to short fare by only buying a ticket to Hayes and Harlington. But under TfL rules, did presenting their debit card to the inspector validate the Hayes and Harlington to Reading part of the journey (n.b. in typing this, I now realise that OP won't have tapped out at Reading - will that make a difference?)
- for Reading - Guildford, if OP had boarded the Guildford train without a ticket then technically are they in breach of a byelaw? But as the OP says, the train wasn't due to leave yet so practically did their buying of a Reading - Guildford ticket before scheduled departure excuse this?

But none of this will validate previous journeys: as OP says they have done this a number of times, I'm guessing that they haven't been picked up by TfL between Hayes and Harlington and Reading before, so that would mean a history of fare dodging.

 

[loopy]

If it’s an out of court settlement then it’s not a fine, it’s an amount to cover the loss to the railways.
Something like £150 admin fee plus anytime single fare for every fare avoided.
That’s “only” under £200 in total if the only fare avoided was the one you mention. But correspondingly more if analysis of your purchase history shows it.

There’s no maximum, it’s down to what you and GWR agree between you.

I use trainpal to buy tickets. Do they check my record?

 

[jfollows]

I use trainpal to buy tickets. Do they check my record?

Yes

 

[30907]

I use trainpal to buy tickets. Do they check my record?

Yes, very likely.

 

[loopy]

What the OP has done is irregular (the general rule is that you're meant to pay for your journey before you start it) but I think we need an expert to say whether there's actually an offence here. My thoughts are
- for the Southall - Reading leg, OP attempted to short fare by only buying a ticket to Hayes and Harlington. But under TfL rules, did presenting their debit card to the inspector validate the Hayes and Harlington to Reading part of the journey (n.b. in typing this, I now realise that OP won't have tapped out at Reading - will that make a difference?)
- for Reading - Guildford, if OP had boarded the Guildford train without a ticket then technically are they in breach of a byelaw? But as the OP says, the train wasn't due to leave yet so practically did their buying of a Reading - Guildford ticket before scheduled departure excuse this?

But none of this will validate previous journeys: as OP says they have done this a number of times, I'm guessing that they haven't been picked up by TfL between Hayes and Harlington and Reading before, so that would mean a history of fare dodging.

Yes you're right. I never tapped out at reading. Also, after the inspector printed me a ticket to guilford, I completed my own purchase of the ticket. I did this just when the train departed. It was pointless for me to do that as I had already been caught. But yeah I also did have my own ticket on trainpal which I didn't use. I used the ticket the inspector gave me.

Yes, very likely.

Oh okay, thanks for informing me. So I'm guessing it will take a while for them to calculate the total cost and send me a letter...

I've been doing this since december as well. If they somehow happen to not check then do I need to tell them about me evading fares in the past.

Sorry for the questions again, but do I get a criminal record for this? I'm graduating this year and worried about not getting a job.

 

[Haywain]

whether there's actually an offence here.

It's a bit late for that considering that the OP fessed up to that when he was questioned. And has made clear in a later post that a clear cut Byelaw offence has been committed.

But as the OP says, the train wasn't due to leave yet so practically did their buying of a Reading - Guildford ticket before scheduled departure excuse this?

The idea of a ticket check ten minutes before departure defies belief. But then the OP says (after you posted):

I completed my own purchase of the ticket. I did this just when the train departed.

 

[loopy]

It's a bit late for that considering that the OP fessed up to that when he was questioned. And has made clear in a later post that a clear cut Byelaw offence has been committed.

The idea of a ticket check ten minutes before departure defies belief. But then the OP says (after you posted):

Yh I bought it when the inspector let me go back on the train. Is there any point in me saying this when I reply back to them.

 

[jfollows]

Yes you're right. I never tapped out at reading. Also, after the inspector printed me a ticket to guilford, I completed my own purchase of the ticket. I did this just when the train departed. It was pointless for me to do that as I had already been caught. But yeah I also did have my own ticket on trainpal which I didn't use. I used the ticket the inspector gave me.


Oh okay, thanks for informing me. So I'm guessing it will take a while for them to calculate the total cost and send me a letter...

I've been doing this since december as well. If they somehow happen to not check then do I need to tell them about me evading fares in the past.

Sorry for the questions again, but do I get a criminal record for this? I'm graduating this year and worried about not getting a job.

If you agree an out of court settlement there is no criminal record.

They will likely write to you first asking for your version of events. You should not incriminate yourself, but as well as saying you won’t do it again you should offer to pay their costs. They will then come back to you with a figure. Read examples on this forum in the meantime. If they don’t check on your history then count yourself lucky and say nothing.

If you don’t agree an out of court settlement then you could be taken to court and get a criminal record.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

whether there's actually an offence here.

It's a bit late for that considering that the OP fessed up to that when he was questioned.

But if they didn't commit an offence then they will be able to point this out when the railway write to them.

And has made clear in a later post that a clear cut Byelaw offence has been committed.

I'm sorry, but I'm being a bit slow today*: for my benefit can you spell out which offence?

*Not intended to be passive aggressive - I really am not at my sharpest right now so I need help to follow what I suspect should be obvious.

 

[loopy]

I will make sure to offer paying all costs and say I won't do it again. I will read examples on here. Thanks a lot.

But if they didn't commit an offence then they will be able to point this out when the railway write to them.

I'm sorry, but I'm being a bit slow today*: for my benefit can you spell out which offence?

*Not intended to be passive aggressive - I really am not at my sharpest right now so I need help to follow what I suspect should be obvious.

I think they mean the offence was that I wasn't paying for the full journey from southall to Reading. I was paying for southall to Hayes and harlington just so I could get on the train to reading. I didn't say this to the inspector though when I was questioned.

 

[AlterEgo]

I use trainpal to buy tickets. Do they check my record?

Contrary to what others have said, I don’t think we’ve seen any instance of Trainpal giving into a data request? If others could provide an example this might be helpful.

 

[74A]

As they did not scan a ticket I'm not sure they will even know you have a trainpal account.

 

[Iet2389]

Other thing to consider:

During TFL inspections the device for checking cards is only set to tap you in, if you haven't already. The TFL inspector will only see if the tap is successful , regardless of whether it's first tap or an additional. Or they can see if the card is blocked.

However, if you haven't been tapping in and out regularly, this is noted. There is a three strikes rule (the card is blocked) if you don't tap in and out correctly.

TFL will possibly be looking at this data if they connect it to your address and deciding if a fraud pattern exists. You can only wait and see if TFL and GWR write to you.

 

[loopy]

Other thing to consider:

During TFL inspections the device for checking cards is only set to tap you in, if you haven't already. The TFL inspector will only see if the tap is successful , regardless of whether it's first tap or an additional. Or they can see if the card is blocked.

However, if you haven't been tapping in and out regularly, this is noted. There is a three strikes rule (the card is blocked) if you don't tap in and out correctly.

TFL will possibly be looking at this data if they connect it to your address and deciding if a fraud pattern exists. You can only wait and see if TFL and GWR write to you.

This did happen to me before as well but it was a few months ago and with a different card.

 

[Haywain]

I'm sorry, but I'm being a bit slow today*: for my benefit can you spell out which offence?

Railway Byelaw 18 (1):

(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.

The OP states that the purchase of the ticket from Reading to Guildford was completed "just when the train departed". It would seem that was also at the point the ticket was requested for checking.

 

[loopy]

Railway Byelaw 18 (1):

The OP states that the purchase of the ticket from Reading to Guildford was completed "just when the train departed". It would seem that was also at the point the ticket was requested for checking.

When I was in the train, somebody else checked tickets again during the actual journey. I showed them the ticket the inspector from before printed me. I did not show the one I bought so it never got scanned.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Railway Byelaw 18 (1):

The OP states that the purchase of the ticket from Reading to Guildford was completed "just when the train departed". It would seem that was also at the point the ticket was requested for checking.

Thank you.

 

[loopy]

Thank you.

I was in the process of buying when I saw inspectors coming around the first time. And then was questioned and reported. They gave me a ticket to use. I went back on the train but I still bought my own ticket on the train. Around 10 min later another inspector came to check. I showed the ticket the first inspector printed for me not the one I bought myself.

 

[dciuk]

I was in the process of buying when I saw inspectors coming around the first time. And then was questioned and reported. They gave me a ticket to use. I went back on the train but I still bought my own ticket on the train. Around 10 min later another inspector came to check. I showed the ticket the first inspector printed for me not the one I bought myself.

Just to check that I have the correct understanding of the timeline at Reading

You arrived on an Elizabeth line train and then boarded the Guildford train without a ticket, but as there was still 10 minutes before departure you then attempted to purchase the ticket prior to departure, but before you could complete this an inspector came to check tickets.
You then left the train with this inspector and the inspector took your details and issued you with a ticket. Did you make any payment for this ticket?
You then boarded the train with the ticket the inspector had provided and then went on to purchase another ticket (If my understanding of this is correct I am wondering why you purchased another ticket when you already had the one from the inspector)
During the journey to Guildford there was a further ticket check and you used the ticket that the inspector at Reading had given you and therefore the ticket you purchased on the app has not been used

 

[loopy]

Yes, that is all correct. And I did not have to pay for the ticket the inspector gave me. Honestly I was just really stressed and confused and that was my reason for buying another ticket.

 

[dciuk]

The OP states that the purchase of the ticket from Reading to Guildford was completed "just when the train departed". It would seem that was also at the point the ticket was requested for checking.

As the OP has now comfirmed that they were attempting to purchase the ticket about 10 minutes before departure and the ticket they purchased "just as the train departed" was an additional ticket that they did not use, that leaves the question that @Fawkes Cat asked about if an offence was committed. While the OP did board the train without a ticket they then left the train before it departed and reboarded it with a valid ticket and had they not have been stopped partway through purchasing the ticket originally in all probability would have still have had a ticket by the time the train departed.