Ideas for provision if disused railways are reopened on the Isle of Wight

[Neen Sollars]

Just wondering if the announcement of some disused rail lines opening on the Isle of Wight might mean more orders for 484s from Vivarail.

 

[Nym]

Just wondering if the announcement of some disused rail lines opening on the Isle of Wight might mean more orders for 484s from Vivarail.

But that would be extending the 3rd rail network that the SRA / DfT Rail / ORR won't allow.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

But that would be extending the 3rd rail network that the SRA / DfT Rail / ORR won't allow.

I fully understand the reasoning for not putting 3rd Rail on the Settle to Carlisle line or through to Middlesbrough because it'd be an island by itself, it does however seem crazy not to use it in places like Ashford to Ore or the Uckfields or in this case to extend the Island line services where it'll be attached to a 3rd rail system already.
Do the powers that be think 3rd rail is unsafe, more expensive or less efficient? (Genuine question)

 

[John R]

But that would be extending the 3rd rail network that the SRA / DfT Rail / ORR won't allow.

Not necessarily, the TfW versions are bi-mode with batteriesl, so no reasons why the IoW couldn't be too. Though I expect given the time any reinstatement will take it will probably be an additional order of redundant S7 stock being converted.

 

[Neen Sollars]

Nym, Live and learn, so there can be no more third rail lines constructed. Perhaps the 230/484 battery only version?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nym, Live and learn, so there can be no more third rail lines constructed. Perhaps the 230/484 battery only version?

Or if we're spending, bin off the 484 plan, put up tram OHLE (cheaper than the mainline stuff) and order some off the shelf trams like the Metrolink units. Small batteries for those effing tunnels

 

[fgwrich]

Or if we're spending, bin off the 484 plan, put up tram OHLE (cheaper than the mainline stuff) and order some off the shelf trams like the Metrolink units. Small batteries for those effing tunnels

I'm surprised that didn't happen to be honest. Give it a year or two, and there's a good number of ex DLR Stock coming out of use too!

 

[Journeyman]

Just wondering if the announcement of some disused rail lines opening on the Isle of Wight might mean more orders for 484s from Vivarail.

What announcement is this? I'd be surprised if anything comes of it, given how rural most of the IoW is, and what a dodgy state the Island's economy is in. People have been attempting to reopen to Ventnor for years, but I can't see it happening.

 

[swt_passenger]

What announcement is this? I'd be surprised if anything comes of it, given how rural most of the IoW is, and what a dodgy state the Island's economy is in. People have been attempting to reopen to Ventnor for years, but I can't see it happening.

It’s one of the ten suggestions listed by DfT yesterday and being discussed here:

Govenment Briefing 23rd May - Reversing Beeching Cuts

It appears that we now have a list of successful bids for the first round of the Ideas Fund https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/re-opening-beeching-era-lines-and-stations/re-opening-beeching-era-lines-and-stations Successful bids for the first round of the Ideas Fund We are pleased to...

www.railforums.co.uk

for what it’s worth. I don’t think anyone has come up with any detail...

 

[Journeyman]

It’s one of the ten suggestions listed by DfT yesterday and being discussed here:

Govenment Briefing 23rd May - Reversing Beeching Cuts

It appears that we now have a list of successful bids for the first round of the Ideas Fund https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/re-opening-beeching-era-lines-and-stations/re-opening-beeching-era-lines-and-stations Successful bids for the first round of the Ideas Fund We are pleased to...

www.railforums.co.uk

for what it’s worth. I don’t think anyone has come up with any detail...

Yeah, doubt that'll come to much. Only lines on the IoW with much of a chance are Cowes and Ventnor. The former has a steam railway and major road in the way, the latter a number of major structures missing and a very inconveniently located terminus. The rest of the lines on the island are complete dead ducks.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Yeah, doubt that'll come to much. Only lines on the IoW with much of a chance are Cowes and Ventnor. The former has a steam railway and major road in the way, the latter a number of major structures missing and a very inconveniently located terminus. The rest of the lines on the island are complete dead ducks.

the bid was for Newport and Ventnor.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Unlikely this would be, it would be great if the Island line also ran to Newport, the largest town on the island and a bus-less link to Waterloo via Ryde and the Portsmouth ferry could look attractive. I understand this is already easily done by bus, a rail service could bring tourism from those exploring the IOW for the first time like Carisbrooke Castle from Newport also exchange to bus at Newport for Yarmouth & Alum Bay, also Cowes. A perfect introduction for those not driving cars, as you get off the ferry at Ryde, the train's right there.

A potential Newport extension on the cheap could start with an extra number of lengthened 484s then if the service is well received and in demand then this be followed by proper new rolling stock specially constructed for fitting in the tunnels rather than going for ex-LU cast offs.

In an ideal world, the Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour services would instead terminate at Newport with a tunnel in the Solent, also the island having more rail lines around. Regional services from Newport/Ryde to Cowes, Ventnor and Yarmouth served by SWR 450s or 158/9s if unelectrified!

 

[ashkeba]

Yeah, doubt that'll come to much. Only lines on the IoW with much of a chance are Cowes and Ventnor. The former has a steam railway and major road in the way, [...]

Is Newport's southern route to Sandown obstructed too?

 

[Nym]

Or if you want to be really maverick, fit the D78 conversions with a pantograph, there is enough roof space to cut away, especially if they've removed the old pressure vent system.

 

[Nym]

I fully understand the reasoning for not putting 3rd Rail on the Settle to Carlisle line or through to Middlesbrough because it'd be an island by itself, it does however seem crazy not to use it in places like Ashford to Ore or the Uckfields or in this case to extend the Island line services where it'll be attached to a 3rd rail system already.
Do the powers that be think 3rd rail is unsafe, more expensive or less efficient? (Genuine question)

Honestly unknown to answer this. I think it's more that the likes of the DfT, ORR etc are just so risk averse they won't do anything even slightly risky, or not part of the TSIs, etc.

 

[Speed43125]

Do the powers that be think 3rd rail is unsafe, more expensive or less efficient? (Genuine question)

It's the first one.

 

[Rick1984]

Reopening lines on the IoW sounds great in theory but the problems in doing so make this investigation seem a complete waste of money

 

[anthony263]

It's the first one.

I have read somewhere that the orr seem to be softening their stance on new or extended 3rd rail so there might be a chance

 

[Journeyman]

Is Newport's southern route to Sandown obstructed too?

I don't know, but it's useless for the Ryde - Newport journey.

 

[BrianW]

I would imagine one or more of these criteria would need to be shown to be met (and that would not need an extensive/ expensive consultants review!):

1. Unmet demand between A and B
2. More demand to be stimulated (why?)
3. Overcrowded roads and or buses with no cheaper ability to be sufficiently improved.

I have a map with lines from just about everywhere to everywhere else- why did they close?

 

[ashkeba]

I don't know, but it's useless for the Ryde - Newport journey.

It's not as good (Ryde-Sandown-Newport) but still possible and not that much worse than Ryde-Smallbrook-Newport. The announcement does not commit to the northern branch or a new line, did it?

 

[si404]

Unlikely this would be, it would be great if the Island line also ran to Newport, the largest town on the island

Ryde is bigger than Newport. Newport is a decent size though.

 

[HSTEd]

It is probably possible to engineer a touch-safe four rail system that is transparent to traditional LU rolling stock. (Unless people come into contact with both power rails at once they would not recieve a significant DC shock)

So just convert the D-stock back to four rail and you are good to go!

 

[Rick1984]

The Sandown route gets you about 0.7 miles from the centre of Newport, Ryde 0.9.

It looks like you could squeeze both further toward the centre but if your not allowed level crossings then that's going to be a problem

 

[HSTEd]

I have read somewhere that the orr seem to be softening their stance on new or extended 3rd rail so there might be a chance

The absurd cost of new 25kV installations probably has led to interesting questions being asked.

Also a disproportionate amount of risk in third rail (per metre of track) is in stations.
And you can think of ways to mitigate the shock risk at stations relatively cheaply

 

[Bletchleyite]

The absurd cost of new 25kV installations probably has led to interesting questions being asked.

Also a disproportionate amount of risk in third rail (per metre of track) is in stations.
And you can think of ways to mitigate the shock risk at stations relatively cheaply

I'd have thought that if you put boards on both sides or put it in a fibreglass trough the chance of accidental contact is then tiny.

 

[30907]

I have a map with lines from just about everywhere to everywhere else- why did they close?

Lack of traffic, and a dense bus network.

It's not as good (Ryde-Sandown-Newport) but still possible and not that much worse than Ryde-Smallbrook-Newport. The announcement does not commit to the northern branch or a new line, did it?

Sandown-Newport was slightly busier and survived to 1956 rather than 1953; Ryde-Newport via Sandown would be 14 miles instead of 9 (neither route is particularly direct), though it serves more villages.
The IOW Council refers to Newport Harbour as a destination, which points pretty conclusively to using the Steam Railway route.
Now suppose they relocated the Steam Railway to run Sandown-Horringford-(new curve at Merstone)-Godshill..... well, this is the Speculative Ideas forum

 

[BrianW]

Lack of traffic, and a dense bus network.

Indeed; what's changed?? A consultancy 'job' for someone?

 

[Romsey]

Is Newport's southern route to Sandown obstructed too?

Yes, the road south from Newport has been straightened in a few places and there are developments across the trackbed as far as Blackwater. All the area used by the railway viaducts across the Medinahas been obliterated by new roads ( Coppins Bridge roundabout.)

I've posted on a different thread that most of the bus users are on OAP cards, student cards or "Key Card" discount pre purchase passes. Also most of the lines on the Island didn't serve their communities particularly closely.

 

[Rick1984]

Newport Harbour would seem logical but your still a good distance from the centre