If additional stock becomes available, XC's priority should be to lengthen existing services

[irish_rail]

Moderator note: Split from

Cross Country Cancellations - Emergency Timetable

XC Moving over to an emergency timetable in August, removing Newcastle to Reading services and the extensions to Aberdeen. “Dear Stakeholder, I am writing to let you know about some temporary resource led changes we will be making to our train timetable for the next 13 weeks, to ensure we...

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From what I've heard, 1S43 (0827 off PLY) becomes a single set from December, attaching at Birmingham with the unit from Cardiff. As a result, 1S41 (0727 off PLY) becomes a double set throughout.

I think the trouble is 0727 is just too early for many leisure travellers , not to mention the peak fare putting the vast majority off. I'm quite shocked XC are not doing something about the 1127 from December, as this one is a real problem. I know from personal experience as we are booked to travel on it on one Plymouth driving turn, but from Exeter to Bristol. Of the 5 times I've done the turn, twice I couldn't physically board at Exeter such was the overcrowding and on one of those occasions the 1400 Bristol to London got caped as a result of me being unable to get to Bristol to drive it! XC need to address this.

 

[Jrocks]

I think the trouble is 0727 is just too early for many leisure travellers , not to mention the peak fare putting the vast majority off. I'm quite shocked XC are not doing something about the 1127 from December, as this one is a real problem. I know from personal experience as we are booked to travel on it on one Plymouth driving turn, but from Exeter to Bristol. Of the 5 times I've done the turn, twice I couldn't physically board at Exeter such was the overcrowding and on one of those occasions the 1400 Bristol to London got caped as a result of me being unable to get to Bristol to drive it! XC need to address this.

I know Cross Country staff have been crying out for 1S47 (1027 off PLY) to become a double set but have been told that it's impossible to balance the sets at the depots. When that's a 4 car, it's often leaving people behind in Cornwall and completely stuffed by the time it's leaving Plymouth. That puts strain onto our 2U16 which then often leaves Exeter full of people who couldn't board 1S47. And then anyone who couldn't board either of them gets stuffed onto 1S49 which is also completely wedged from Exeter. I've lost count of the amount of times I've had 200+ people trying to get onto a full and standing 4 car between 1030 and 1230! It doesn't help that 2U18 starts at Taunton either, not giving a 'relief' train to Bristol when 1S49 is stuffed

 

[irish_rail]

I know Cross Country staff have been crying out for 1S47 (1027 off PLY) to become a double set but have been told that it's impossible to balance the sets at the depots. When that's a 4 car, it's often leaving people behind in Cornwall and completely stuffed by the time it's leaving Plymouth. That puts strain onto our 2U16 which then often leaves Exeter full of people who couldn't board 1S47. And then anyone who couldn't board either of them gets stuffed onto 1S49 which is also completely wedged from Exeter. I've lost count of the amount of times I've had 200+ people trying to get onto a full and standing 4 car between 1030 and 1230! It doesn't help that 2U18 starts at Taunton either, not giving a 'relief' train to Bristol when 1S49 is stuffed

Certainly the 1027 and 1127 off PLY need to be extended if any new stock does become available . I've a bad feeling XC seem more bothered about reinstating lightly used services than strengthening these two though.

 

[MasterPhillips]

I've a bad feeling XC seem more bothered about reinstating lightly used services than strengthening these two though.

Agree with this. From a Reading perspective on weekends almost all the single set Manchester services leave full with no space to board, meanwhile the York/Newcastle services are half full at best. If they are even running that is!

would much rather a double set every hour that is reliable (as it was during COVID up till May 2022 I think ) instead of the current mess.

 

[irish_rail]

Agree with this. From a Reading perspective on weekends almost all the single set Manchester services leave full with no space to board, meanwhile the York/Newcastle services are half full at best. If they are even running that is!

would much rather a double set every hour that is reliable (as it was during COVID up till May 2022 I think ) instead of the current mess.

It's the same with the Bristol to Manchesters. They are always dead. Trouble is nothing connects with them from the south west, so they are really only useful for the Bristol area. Either start them from Taunton so they connect with trains from the west, or just use the voyager set to strengthen all the Plymouth Edinburghs to 8 or 9 car.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Quite simply, this isn't going to get any better until the Treasury permit Cross Country to order 16 eight-car units similar to the Class 800 to operate the South Coast-Manchester services.

As that isn't going to happen, then the next best thing would be for Chiltern to extend a service between Milton Keynes and Oxford to Reading once per hour to give a 10 minute connection with an Avanti service at MK.

With a well planned timetable, a 1h08m journey from Reading to MK on Chiltern, with a 10 minute connection, followed by a 1h41m journey from Milton Keynes to Manchester would take 2h59m so very competitive with the 3h14m direct route via Banbury.

 

[Trainguy34]

Regarding the overcrowding in the southwest, surely GWR could extend some of the Cardiff - Taunton services to Exeter, an example being the 11.55 arrival into Taunton, not leaving until 13.16. Using the services after as a template, surely it could continue through to Exeter St David's with a 30 minute (ish) turnaround?

 

[JonathanH]

As that isn't going to happen, then the next best thing would be for Chiltern to extend a service between Milton Keynes and Oxford to Reading once per hour to give a 10 minute connection with an Avanti service at MK.

One of the flaws with that plan would appear to be that EWR services are going to be run with 2-car units, and only six of them at that, so I doubt there will be a lot of capacity for extending to Reading, or conveying passengers displaced from CrossCountry.

 

[The Planner]

Quite simply, this isn't going to get any better until the Treasury permit Cross Country to order 16 eight-car units similar to the Class 800 to operate the South Coast-Manchester services.

As that isn't going to happen, then the next best thing would be for Chiltern to extend a service between Milton Keynes and Oxford to Reading once per hour to give a 10 minute connection with an Avanti service at MK.

With a well planned timetable, a 1h08m journey from Reading to MK on Chiltern, with a 10 minute connection, followed by a 1h41m journey from Milton Keynes to Manchester would take 2h59m so very competitive with the 3h14m direct route via Banbury.

You aren't rewriting the WCML slows just to provide a 10 minute connection. How are you getting 68 minute journey from Reading to MK, its 28 to Oxford from Reading, you arent doing MK in 40.

 

[BlueLeanie]

You aren't rewriting the WCML slows just to provide a 10 minute connection. How are you getting 68 minute journey from Reading to MK, its 28 to Oxford from Reading, you arent doing MK in 40.

The published timetable says most of the Oxford to MK journeys will take 44 minutes.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Oxford all day on 18/12/2024

Train information at Oxford all day on 18/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The fastest journey is diagrammed at just 41 minutes.

Realtime Trains | 5F29 1313 Oxford to Milton Keynes Central | 18/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 5F29 1313 departure from Oxford to Milton Keynes Central on 18/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The Oxford/Reading journey varies between 21 and 29 minutes, 24 minutes seemed a reasonable estimate.

 

[The Planner]

Sped them up from the original proposal then.

 

[irish_rail]

Quite simply, this isn't going to get any better until the Treasury permit Cross Country to order 16 eight-car units similar to the Class 800 to operate the South Coast-Manchester services.

As that isn't going to happen, then the next best thing would be for Chiltern to extend a service between Milton Keynes and Oxford to Reading once per hour to give a 10 minute connection with an Avanti service at MK.

With a well planned timetable, a 1h08m journey from Reading to MK on Chiltern, with a 10 minute connection, followed by a 1h41m journey from Milton Keynes to Manchester would take 2h59m so very competitive with the 3h14m direct route via Banbury.

I disagree. Any 8 car 800s would most definitely go onto Plymouth to Edinburgh (all depots on route already service 80x more or less) and this is where the greatest passenger numbers are and longest trips. Displaced voyagers could strengthen Bournemouth stuff. Though I doubt any of this will happen anyway, for 10 years at least

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Quite simply, this isn't going to get any better until the Treasury permit Cross Country to order 16 eight-car units similar to the Class 800 to operate the South Coast-Manchester services.

80x are only sold by Hitachi in odd number of vehicle formations, eg 5, 7, 9s

 

[Halish Railway]

I disagree. Any 8 car 800s would most definitely go onto Plymouth to Edinburgh (all depots on route already service 80x more or less) and this is where the greatest passenger numbers are and longest trips. Displaced voyagers could strengthen Bournemouth stuff. Though I doubt any of this will happen anyway, for 10 years at least

As well as a much greater proportion of high speed running under the wires where you’re likely to make some of the greatest fuel cost savings.

In the coming years all the way from Derby to Edinburgh, vice the 18 mile stretch between Sheffield and South Kirkby Jn is set to be electrified, so as much as you’d have to fork out quite a bit of money for these hypothetical new trains, they would make use of electrification in the pipeline.

Should Derby to Birmingham be electrified that would remove all diesel running on sections with a linespeed in excess of 100 mph if I remember correctly.

80x are only sold by Hitachi in odd number of vehicle formations, eg 5, 7, 9s

I don’t think there’s any requirement to have an odd number of coaches given that the original intention of the Intercity Express Program was to order a fleet of 8 carriage 800s for Scotland to Southwest services.

 

[dk1]

80x are only sold by Hitachi in odd number of vehicle formations, eg 5, 7, 9s

The sister 395 fleet are 6-cars.

 

[Pete_uk]

Once the 222s become available they should be reformed into 7 or 8 car trains for the busiest services.

 

[dk1]

Once the 222s become available they should be reformed into 7 or 8 car trains for the busiest services.

I very much doubt that will happen. Not only will it throw up redundant driving vehicles but it will make diagramming far to complex with less scope for multi-unit working.

 

[brad465]

Should Derby to Birmingham be electrified that would remove all diesel running on sections with a linespeed in excess of 100 mph if I remember correctly.

Uphill jct (near Weston-super-Mare) to Highbridge and Burnham is 110mph and not electrified.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Uphill jct (near Weston-super-Mare) to Highbridge and Burnham is 110mph and not electrified.

A very short stretch of line…

 

[BlueLeanie]

I very much doubt that will happen. Not only will it throw up redundant driving vehicles but it will make diagramming far to complex with less scope for multi-unit working.

I just can't see 8 car units regularly working in multiple in passenger service.

The 222s are 20 year old units. If it means some driving vehicles go into storage, so be it.

But, it would give the opportunity to experiment with removing a 222 driving car engine and replacing it with an 802 style battery. It may change the performance and economy dynamic enough to secure a longer life for 220/221/222 series units.

 

[dk1]

I just can't see 8 car units regularly working in multiple in passenger service.

The 222s are 20 year old units. If it means some driving vehicles go into storage, so be it.

But, it would give the opportunity to experiment with removing a 222 driving car engine and replacing it with an 802 style battery. It may change the performance and economy dynamic enough to secure a longer life for 220/221/222 series units.

They wouldn’t even be able to work at many locations with a 220 let alone a 221. Operationaly it’s a non-starter on many fronts. Even fuelling could be an issue at some depots XC use. Twenty years old is only mid-life so those driving cars are still very valuable.

 

[Nottingham59]

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