If Off-Peak Returns exist how come Off-Peak Singles don't?

[JP]

This is about Southern services from Gatwick Airport. I got there at about 8pm on Tuesday.

With a 16-25 railcard I can buy an off-peak day return from the machine for £10.25.

There's no option for an off-peak single which matches up with what's on brfares.com. The cheapest one way option from a machine seems to be the Anytime single for £10.75.

I used Oyster and got the off-peak contactless fare of £8.

So how can off-peak returns exist, but it's seemingly impossible to buy an off-peak ticket for a one way journey using a railcard?

The trains must all be off-peak services (because otherwise the returns wouldn't be available and Oyster would cost more).

 

[LexyBoy]

They do exist, but not for all flows.

There is supposed to always be a single fare that is cheaper than a return - albeit sometimes of a different ticket type - but sometimes it is missing, which seems especially plausible for the pig's breakfast that is Gatwick fares.

It used to be quite common that no Off Peak Single was available, but the Off Peak Return was less than an Anytime Single - unless you knew this and bought the return (only using one half) you'd pay over the odds. The TOCs agreed to make sure that a suitable single is available, which is usually the case but mistakes do get made. It's not always the same ticket type - for example from Reading to Bracknell, there's only an Anytime Day Single but this is cheaper than the (Super) Off Peak Day Returns.

What was your desintation? I can see a £10.25 CDR for GTW>VIC but no £10.75 single.

 

[button_boxer]

This is about Southern services from Gatwick Airport. I got there at about 8pm on Tuesday.

With a 16-25 railcard I can buy an off-peak day return from the machine for £10.25.

There's no option for an off-peak single which matches up with what's on brfares.com. The cheapest one way option from a machine seems to be the Anytime single for £10.75.

I used Oyster and got the off-peak contactless fare of £8.

So how can off-peak returns exist, but it's seemingly impossible to buy an off-peak ticket for a one way journey using a railcard?

The trains must all be off-peak services (because otherwise the returns wouldn't be available and Oyster would cost more).

Assuming you're talking about tickets to London, the not GX Anytime Day Single is £10.25, the equivalent Off-Peak Day Return is 5p more expensive at £10.30. There are no cheaper paper singles, only Oyster fares (£8 without a railcard on your Oyster, £5.30 with).

This isn't that unusual, there are many other flows for which the only single fare that exists is an Anytime, with the off-peak day return priced just above the single and the anytime day return priced higher.

 

[JP]

They do exist, but not for all flows.

There is supposed to always be a single fare that is cheaper than a return - albeit sometimes of a different ticket type - but sometimes it is missing, which seems especially plausible for the pig's breakfast that is Gatwick fares.

What was your desintation? I can see a £10.25 CDR for GTW>VIC but no £10.75 single.

I probably just mistyped and meant 10.25. But it was to Victoria. Although I did try other options to see if anything else came up better (London Bridge, London Terminals) while trying to avoid Thameslink to Blackfriars because I really hate the slow line after Croydon as it snakes through South London.
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Assuming you're talking about tickets to London, the not GX Anytime Day Single is £10.25, the equivalent Off-Peak Day Return is 5p more expensive at £10.30. There are no cheaper paper singles, only Oyster fares (£8 without a railcard on your Oyster, £5.30 with).

This isn't that unusual, there are many other flows for which the only single fare that exists is an Anytime, with the off-peak day return priced just above the single and the anytime day return priced higher.

I'm confused by the difference between the fares on Oyster and from a ticket machine I think is the crux of it then.

Are TfL subsidising passengers using Oyster? Does the revenue from the Oyster/contactless fares end up with the DfT in the same way a Southern fare would (since it's a management contract)?

If the latter is true it strikes me as strange that off-peak paper ticket singles aren't available.

 

[LexyBoy]

There's an Anytime Day Single at £10.15, maybe that's what you meant to type?

Are TfL subsidising passengers using Oyster?

Not really I think - within the original Oyster zones the Oyster fares replaced the paper fares pretty closely, and the paper fares were then hiked to penalise non-Oyster users. Not sure how it works from Gatwick though.

If the latter is true it strikes me as strange that off-peak paper ticket singles aren't available.

Off Peak Singles, where they exist, are with few exceptions only a few pence less than the return. In this case, it would be the same price as an Anytime Day Single so there would be no point in offering it.

 

[MikeWh]

I'm confused by the difference between the fares on Oyster and from a ticket machine I think is the crux of it then.

Welcome to the whacky world of Oyster south of Couldson South. Oyster fares are simple because they can't tell which sort of train you've taken (apart from the Express if the London end is P13/14). Paper fares are a complete mess. The Oyster fares are a compromise forced by the existing system. They are not meant to be competitive, rather it is a convenience.

Are TfL subsidising passengers using Oyster?

No. Govia set the fares between Gatwick and Merstham within the boundaries imposed by the Oyster system. What they set is what they get, ignoring any processing commision etc.

Does the revenue from the Oyster/contactless fares end up with the DfT in the same way a Southern fare would (since it's a management contract)?

Yes. It is allocated to Govia who pass it on in the same way as any other fare revenue.

 

[Starmill]

You don't quite seem to say where you're going, but with a railcard there's a "Thameslink Only" (whatever you think that means) Anytime Day Single to Croydon Stations for £2.95, plus one to London Blackfriars route Not Underground for £6.80.

 

[JP]

You don't quite seem to say where you're going, but with a railcard there's a "Thameslink Only" (whatever you think that means) Anytime Day Single to Croydon Stations for £2.95, plus one to London Blackfriars route Not Underground for £6.80.

In my first reply I mentioned it. I don't like the Thameslink route. I used to commute to East Croydon and using that slow line to Blackfriars was always something I hated so I try to keep to the Victoria or London Bridge trains.

 

[Starmill]

You can use those tickets on trains to London Bridge.

 

[JP]

While I appreciate it as an option, Thameslink trains to London Bridge from East Croydon or Gatwick are not very frequent (xx.18 and xx.48 I think). So I wouldn't want to pay more than the contactless price from Gatwick to have to buy two tickets and wait for a less frequent service.

 

[Starmill]

There's no particular need to use one route or another, certainly not with a Not Underground ticket anyway.