Ile-de-France Navigo pass

[mike57]

A very specific question: I know it is possible to load a navigo pass directly onto a compatible Android phone, without having a physical smart card, the phone needs specific hardware to be able to work in the same way as the smartcard, but if your phone has the support its works fine, and when you activate the app it tests the phone capability.

I cannot see how to do this with Apple iPhone. Does anyone know if the either Bonjour RAPT app or the IDF Mobilities app on iPhone will work as a replacement for the physical smartcard. You do not seem to get the option for 'tickets on your phone' with the Bonjour RAPT app on iPhone

 

[stuu]

You should be able to, I was looking at this the other day as I'm planning a trip to Paris and wondered if they had contactless tickets... the website says iPhone, I'd be surprised if it didn't work with those given their market share. Possibly it only lets you buy one when in France or something?

 

[mike57]

@stuu Well I've attached two screen dumps, one from my android (samsung s22 ultra) phone:



Which has the 'On my phone' option

And one from my wifes iPhone14pro which doesn't


So it boils down to either: You cant use iPhone or we are doing something wrong. These are from the Bonjour RAPT app, there is also IDF Mobilities app, but not sure where that fits in. Our friend who doesnt have a physical pass, and is on iPhone also gets a similar screen, minus the pass last read bit.

Aim is to arrive at Gare Du Nord with onwards travel in Paris already loaded to avoid the queues and general hassle at Gare Du Nord. Its easy to waste 30mins whilst managing luggage.

 

[SHD]

You're not doing anything wrong. It is unfortunately not yet possible to load IDF Mobilités tickets on iPhones. There is hope though, the "talks" between IDFM and Apple have eventually come to a fruitful conclusion and tickets should be available on iPhones sometime in S2 2023.

Île-de-France ticketing is an awful mess compared to the sheer simplicity of TfL.

 

[mike57]

You're not doing anything wrong. It is unfortunately not yet possible to load IDF Mobilités tickets on iPhones. There is hope though, the "talks" between IDFM and Apple have eventually come to a fruitful conclusion and tickets should be available on iPhones sometime in S2 2023.

Île-de-France ticketing is an awful mess compared to the sheer simplicity of TfL.

OK thanks, at least we know... My wife is pretty good with iPhone and she couldnt fathom it.

 

[Flying Snail]

The Eurostar buffet/bar counters used to sell paper Metro tickets, have they switched to selling the smartcard? If so it would fulfill your goal of avoiding the ticket queues at Gare Du Nord.

 

[Ian99]

Are we saying that there is not yet another way to buy a ticket to travel from Gare du Nord to Gare Montparnasse apart from queuing up at a machine?

 

[30907]

Are we saying that there is not yet another way to buy a ticket to travel from Gare du Nord to Gare Montparnasse apart from queuing up at a machine?

Yes, you pay 2EUR for the Navigo smartcard (or add it to the app) and add a ticket. Don't know whether Eurostar have a markup.

 

[dutchflyer]

IF its just a single for an interstation ride, then I vaguely recall it should now also be possible (probably only via some and not all entry-gates) to simply use LON/Oyster style a bank or crdt-cd?
The fare system may look like a mess as there are such numerous and specific discounts and special fares that al need to be protected in some way to avoid abuse by those not-entitled.

 

[rvdborgt]

IF its just a single for an interstation ride, then I vaguely recall it should now also be possible (probably only via some and not all entry-gates) to simply use LON/Oyster style a bank or crdt-cd?

Your memory is failing you.

 

[mike57]

The Eurostar buffet/bar counters used to sell paper Metro tickets, have they switched to selling the smartcard? If so it would fulfill your goal of avoiding the ticket queues at Gare Du Nord

Certainly when we travelled last Autumn, no you cannot. The card requires two (NOT passport sized) photos and filling in, so its not something you could do at the Eurostar buffet counter.

details here: https://www.iledefrance-mobilites.fr/en/tickets-fares/media/navigo-decouverte-travel-card

If you have an Android phone with NFC hardware (most recent phones have) then you can buy and validate your ticket on your phone without the need for a smart card. From memory the Android app takes your photo a bit like the UK rail card on your phone app. However this will not work with Apple/iPhone, you can top up an existing Navigo smart card using an Apple phone, but you cannot have the ticket directly on your phone.

details here: https://www.iledefrance-mobilites.fr/en/tickets-fares/media/smartphone

The upshot of all this is, If you have a fairly recent Android smartphone you can buy your ticket on your phone before departure, and arrive ready to go, but if you have an Apple iPhone then you have to buy the smart card on arrival and need the two photos, hence reference to queues and general mayhem at Gare du Nord.

As @SHD stated it looks like the situation with Apple may change. I know that the French government seem to take a different view to the UK on software generally, and tend toward open source solutions, and I suspect Apple will want money from IDM hence the current situation. For local people its not an issue, they would buy the smartcard. It is only really an issue for visitors.

There is no option to use bank cards to pass through gates and pay for travel directly.

In terms of ticketing its fairly straightforwards for visitors, you buy a day, week or month pass depending on how long you are staying, and remember the 'Navigo week' is Monday to Sunday. For most visitors the weekly pass is the usally the best option at 30 euros per week.

Comparing with London there is no issues with tapping in and out, all tickets cover the purchased zones. If you use a t+ paper ticket, which I think are dissappearing then they are timed, however the down side the only way to purchase tickets is using the app/smartcard. Every so often on train or in station checks will be carried out by roving RATP staff, they scan your card/phone and check the picture looks like you

We have been using a Navigo card in Paris since 2016, and now you can top up from your phone its an easy solution, really the main issue is first time visitors with an iPhone

 

[CC 72100]

You can get a Navigo card without forms or photos - it is called Navigo Easy.

I was able to get one in 2 minutes at Gare du Nord in the summer, although I did walk away from the main ticket office to a side one to do so. I paid for the card 2 euros and then a carnet of 10 T+ tickets on it, came to about 18 euros from memory.

 

[mike57]

You can get a Navigo card without forms or photos - it is called Navigo Easy.

I was able to get one in 2 minutes at Gare du Nord in the summer, although I did walk away from the main ticket office to a side one to do so. I paid for the card 2 euros and then a carnet of 10 T+ tickets on it, came to about 18 euros from memory.

Yes, but you cannot load the weekly pass on this, and the t+ tickets are no good if you heading outside the city centre

 

[Ian99]

So for someone with an Apple phone wanting to go Paris Nord to Montparnasse, my best bet is to buy a Navigo Easy for c. 18 euros? Normally I'm crossing to Gare du Lyon so would walk but Montparnasse is a bit further to walk...

I assume that there isn't a bus transfer with an easier ticket buying option?

 

[mike57]

So for someone with an Apple phone wanting to go Paris Nord to Montparnasse,

You can still buy the paper t+ tickets individually I think, certainly could when we were there in October last year, I think the paper ones are 2.50 euro each now. They keep threatening to withdraw them, and for regular users smartcard options are cheaper, but they are hanging on for now, but I reckon the paper ticket days must be numbered.

Looking again at the IDF website you can get 1 off t+ ticket + a smart card for 2.10 + 2 euros so 4.10 euro for the first one, then you can top up from your Apple phone for future trips prior to arrival. It just tickets on phone that Apple doesn't support. But for first arrival you will need to purchase the smartcard at Gare Du Nord.

Unlike the Navigo Decouverte the smart card is not personalised, (quote from IDF wesite "It is not personalised so you can share it or pass it one to someone else. During a trip, however, each passenger must have dated their own card.") this is a cut and paste, with odd translation thrown in but you can see the meaning, so if you can find someone with one they have finished with you could buy your ticket before departure.

 

[Ian99]

Thanks very much. Does the smart card have a name?

 

[mike57]

Thanks very much. Does the smart card have a name?

Yes, Navigo Easy Travel Card. IDFM website here: https://www.iledefrance-mobilites.fr/en/tickets-fares/media/navigo-easy-travel-card. Note this is a different card to Navigo Decouverte

 

[ricohallo]

For now you can still buy the ticket t+ for 2,10 at ticket machines and ticket offices. The carnet with 10 tickets for 19,10 might or might not be available anymore. Thalys still sell the ticket t+ on board their trains for 2,10, not sure about Eurostar but I wouldn't be surprised if they still sell them.

Ticket t+

Au cœur du réseau de transports Franciliens, Île-de-France Mobilités fédère tous les acteurs (voyageurs, élus, constructeurs, transporteurs, gestionnaires d’infrastructures…), investit et innove pour améliorer le service rendu aux voyageurs.

www.iledefrance-mobilites.fr

 

[30907]

So for someone with an Apple phone wanting to go Paris Nord to Montparnasse, my best bet is to buy a Navigo Easy for c. 18 euros?

Its EUR2 plus the fare.

I assume that there isn't a bus transfer with an easier ticket buying option?

You can buy on board (I assume card?) or by SMS for EUR2.50.
Bus 39 does the job - if you have time.

 

[Ian99]

Thanks for your inputs. As luck would have it, I was given a Navigo Easy card this afternoon. It might have enough credit in it but do I read correctly in this thread that I can top it up using my phone?

 

[SHD]

You can certainly read it and top it up using your phone (even an iPhone!), with the "Bonjour RATP" or "IDF Mobilités" apps.

 

[Ian99]

The Bonjour RATP app tells me that I need an iPhone 7 or later.....

 

[stuu]

Having looked into this a bit further, it seems the issue with iPhones is that Apple want to take a cut of any ticket purchased through the IDFM app. As has already been mentioned, this has seemingly been resolved and should change soon. It does fundamentally dishonest of RATP to claim all this can be done on a phone without saying only Android, especially when they link to the Apple App store.

The ticketing system does seem far too complicated, I'm quite surprised the nonsense of weekly tickets only being Monday to Sunday persists too, when I worked in Paris in 2005 people thought it was backward and would change soon!

 

[Feuillesmortes]

See also https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/end-of-the-line-for-paris’-iconic-metro-ticket.237990/