Incident involving swearing at staff

[elanothefish]

I had a return ticket from X to Y station, only 20 minutes, Northern Rail. I travelled in the morning and upon showing my ticket at barriers on the return leg back from work, the guard pointed it was booked for the wrong day. Human error, stuff happens, I travel regularly and must've just switched off. The guard told me that it was fine and to board the train. I proceeded to board the train and shortly before pulling into my destination, the ticket inspector on the train asks me for my ticket. I explained the above to him but he wasn't having any of it, not even bothering to hear me out and explain what the ticket guard at the station told me. I understand that it in very simple terms his job is, see someone without ticket = charge them. However, given that I had been given permission and let through the barriers to travel and tried to explained the very understandable story, I was rather annoyed. The exchange was rather heated I was growing more frustrated by the minute for his lack of understanding and sympathy. Ultimately I paid the ticket price (no fine) but the conversation continued. He was being rather rude and condescending to me on top of the lack of sympathy and as I left the conversation and train I said F*** you, you C***. Regardless of whatever situation, language like this isn't ideal, but the guy had pushed every button imaginable after a long day at work and I had just given up. He briefly shouted back and pointed at his chest camera and said I will report you and you will get fined for that (upon seeing bylaws, I was surprised to learn that this is a fine)

I step off the train and speak to the guard (the inspector is also talking to him). The inspector talks over me while I try to complain about the situation but the guard just pointed me to the customer service part at the station which I subsequently went to. I spoke to the two guys in there and they were very polite, professional and helpful. They completely understood my point, the fact that I had been allowed to board and travel on the ticket and then charged for another, but more the manner I was spoken to and treated by the ticket inspector on board the train. They told me not to worry, I had paid the ticket and gave no details to the guard at any point, and also not to worry about being fined for swearing at him. The lady I complained to on the phone to Northern rails 15 minutes after the incident also said the same thing, not to worry as they have no details of me.

However, he has body cam footage of me and took payment, so unsure if that is traceable back to me of what not. So in simple terms I am just asking if I can relax and chill out or whether to expect serious ramifications for swearing.

Thanks for replies in advance

 

[AlterEgo]

Northern take a very dim view of people abusing their staff. If your ticket was scanned you may well expect a letter in the post.

 

[elanothefish]

Northern take a very dim view of people abusing their staff. If your ticket was scanned you may well expect a letter in the post.

My ticket was not scanned. He made me purchase a new one, I tapped my card, that is the only details he would have of myself.

 

[WesternLancer]

I had a return ticket from X to Y station, only 20 minutes, Northern Rail. I travelled in the morning and upon showing my ticket at barriers on the return leg back from work, the guard pointed it was booked for the wrong day. Human error, stuff happens, I travel regularly and must've just switched off. The guard told me that it was fine and to board the train. I proceeded to board the train and shortly before pulling into my destination, the ticket inspector on the train asks me for my ticket. I explained the above to him but he wasn't having any of it, not even bothering to hear me out and explain what the ticket guard at the station told me. I understand that it in very simple terms his job is, see someone without ticket = charge them. However, given that I had been given permission and let through the barriers to travel and tried to explained the very understandable story, I was rather annoyed. The exchange was rather heated I was growing more frustrated by the minute for his lack of understanding and sympathy. Ultimately I paid the ticket price (no fine) but the conversation continued. He was being rather rude and condescending to me on top of the lack of sympathy and as I left the conversation and train I said F*** you, you C***. Regardless of whatever situation, language like this isn't ideal, but the guy had pushed every button imaginable after a long day at work and I had just given up. He briefly shouted back and pointed at his chest camera and said I will report you and you will get fined for that (upon seeing bylaws, I was surprised to learn that this is a fine)

I step off the train and speak to the guard (the inspector is also talking to him). The inspector talks over me while I try to complain about the situation but the guard just pointed me to the customer service part at the station which I subsequently went to. I spoke to the two guys in there and they were very polite, professional and helpful. They completely understood my point, the fact that I had been allowed to board and travel on the ticket and then charged for another, but more the manner I was spoken to and treated by the ticket inspector on board the train. They told me not to worry, I had paid the ticket and gave no details to the guard at any point, and also not to worry about being fined for swearing at him. The lady I complained to on the phone to Northern rails 15 minutes after the incident also said the same thing, not to worry as they have no details of me.

However, he has body cam footage of me and took payment, so unsure if that is traceable back to me of what not. So in simple terms I am just asking if I can relax and chill out or whether to expect serious ramifications for swearing.

Thanks for replies in advance

Well this is unfortunate obviously. You say you’d had a long day at work. Maybe the inspector had too. If at the end your long day someone had called you a f… c…. What might you want your employer to do about it?

Be prepared to apologise in writing profusely at the appropriate point.

If you hear from them eg via a trace on your bank card then head back here on what best to do. But if they didn’t take your details you may be lucky and nothing comes of it. I’m tempted to think that will be the outcome.

Check for post e mail or spam.

 

[elanothefish]

Well this is unfortunate obviously. You say you’d had a long day at work. Maybe the inspector had too. If at the end your long day someone had called you a f… c…. What might you want your employer to do about it?

Be prepared to apologise in writing profusely at the appropriate point.

If you hear from them eg via a trace on your bank card then head back here on what best to do. But if they didn’t take your details you may be lucky and nothing comes of it. I’m tempted to think that will be the outcome.

Check for post e mail or spam.

I understand your point, but if someone called me that at the end of the long day whilst I was being one, I would say warranted. He was being one, however that doesn’t make it right in any way. He had little people skills, no consideration and did not listen, and evidently was getting a kick out of it. I regret saying it but, hey, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I did not give them the person any details, just scanned my card for payment. He did say he recorded it but unsure if that really does much unless he has my details.

 

[Titfield]

May I suggest you report your post on this forum to the moderators (by clicking the word report at the bottom of your post) and ask the moderators to change your forum name just in case anyone from Northern is viewing your post.

 

[AlterEgo]

They’re not going to trace your bank card. Behave in future.

 

[Krokodil]

(upon seeing bylaws, I was surprised to learn that this is a fine)

I'm not sure why this surprised you, but you may also be surprised to learn that using abusive words can be an offence under section 4 or section 5 of the Public Order Act.

I did not give them the person any details, just scanned my card for payment. He did say he recorded it but unsure if that really does much unless he has my details

It's possible to trace someone from CCTV footage. BTP have access to facial recognition software connected to the police national computer. If you travel on a regular pattern this also provides an opportunity to intercept you. So you shouldn't assume that you've got away with anything, until the statute of limitations has expired.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm not sure why this surprised you, but you may also be surprised to learn that using abusive words can be an offence under section 4 or section 5 of the Public Order Act.


It's possible to trace someone from CCTV footage. BTP have access to facial recognition software connected to the police national computer. If you travel on a regular pattern this also provides an opportunity to intercept you. So you shouldn't assume that you've got away with anything, until the statute of limitations has expired.

Sadly I suspect staff face this sort of abuse all too often and I doubt facial recognition software is deployed for this very often if at all so I suspect chances of the op being traced in this way are slim.

However if the op is a regular on the route staff will recognise them using less technological methods.

 

[AlterEgo]

The police are not going to look at CCTV and facial recognition and do a sting because someone called someone else a c***. Please everyone just live in the real world.

 

[RPI]

The police are not going to look at CCTV and facial recognition and do a sting because someone called someone else a c***. Please everyone just live in the real world.

Whilst the facial recognition may be far fetched, I've been on the recieving end of such abuse and the BTP have, probably about 75% of the time, managed to identify the perpetrator just from the footage on the body camera.

In reality though, most of the time staff don't bother to report it as they can't be arsed with all the paperwork.

The BTP, if reported, will look at the whole picture, if it was done loudly on a busy train where other passengers could have been affected then they generally do push things like this as there seems to be a big push against antisocial behaviour by BTP at the moment.

 

[bramling]

I'm not sure why this surprised you, but you may also be surprised to learn that using abusive words can be an offence under section 4 or section 5 of the Public Order Act.


It's possible to trace someone from CCTV footage. BTP have access to facial recognition software connected to the police national computer. If you travel on a regular pattern this also provides an opportunity to intercept you. So you shouldn't assume that you've got away with anything, until the statute of limitations has expired.

Think this is a bit optimistic from the point of view of BTP doing much.

 

[Pushpit]

I understand your point, but if someone called me that at the end of the long day whilst I was being one, I would say warranted. He was being one, however that doesn’t make it right in any way. He had little people skills, no consideration and did not listen, and evidently was getting a kick out of it. I regret saying it but, hey, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I doubt you will be pursued any further, but while you hold this mindset "it's warranted but I regret saying it" then for sure, at some point in your life, you are going to really regret it. Staff have the most complex ticketing system in the world, Indian Railways is a bastion of simplicity in comparison. It's not any easier for the staff compared to the passengers, we all frequently get it wrong. Thousands of people try to evade paying their fare daily, and people skills only go so far with dealing with them. He won't be paid enough to endure that sort of rubbish behaviour from you, and as you can see, it made no difference to the core ticket issue one way or the other, it's just you indulging in an abuse of power and avoiding your own responsibility to have the right ticket. So the most urgent thing here, I would suggest, is working out, learning, how you can handle this sort of scenario better in the future. Never ever swearing outside your friends, family and rugby pitch would be a good start.

 

[Dai Corner]

I would have asked the person who gave me permission to use the ticket even though it was for the wrong date something to show anyone who might query it.

 

[Haywain]

if someone called me that at the end of the long day whilst I was being one, I would say warranted.

It's never warranted. Be nice to people and keep the moral high ground.

 

[Cuthbert]

The police are not going to look at CCTV and facial recognition and do a sting because someone called someone else a c***. Please everyone just live in the real world.

I have been called such and reported to BTP with my body worn camera asset number and BTP requested footage and luckily for me recognised the person as he was prolific in abusing rail staff.
The OP might not be recognised but BTP will view the footage.

 

[Krokodil]

Whilst the facial recognition may be far fetched

It has been used for a case I know of. Thing is that it's quick and easy to upload a CCTV still and see if the computer can match it to any mugshots in the PNC. Obviously if the OP isn't in the PNC then there's nothing to match to.

Think this is a bit optimistic from the point of view of BTP doing much.

They're quite good here, but I'm aware that it varies from station to station. The sort of thing PCSOs are handy for.

 

[FinsburyPark]

Had you have not sworn, maybe you could have had grounds for a complaint.

Anyone in customer facing roles needs the basic set of people skills and being antagonistic to customers, and getting a kick out of it * doesn't fit that bill.

*I wasnt there, but going from what OP said

Yes Revenue Protection is a job where the rules have to be enforced, but even still, theres a way to do it.


Obvioulsy I'd highly recommend not doing it, given the circumstances, and to hope it all blows over, and to be ready for any next steps if it doesn't.

 

[John R]

Had you have not sworn, maybe you could have had grounds for a complaint.

Anyone in customer facing roles needs the basic set of people skills and being antagonistic to customers, and getting a kick out of it * doesn't fit that bill.

*I wasnt there, but going from what OP said

Yes Revenue Protection is a job where the rules have to be enforced, but even still, theres a way to do it.

But there are always two sides to a story, and where someone has admitted to using the grossly offensive language that they have in this instance, I’m not sure their word as to the behaviour of the other party will be believed.

 

[island]

But there are always two sides to a story

Three sides even, the passenger's side, the railway side, and what really happened

 

[shredder1]

It must be one of the most difficult jobs being a ticket inspector and working with the general public, but most people are reasonable if you treat them decently, from my experience some rail staff fall short of the mark and create situations.