Interview under caution

[Sabbath78]

Dear Forum

I was stopped and interviewed under caution on Saturday 10 May regarding travelling from Trowbridge to Cardiff for having a ticket without a valid railcard

I appreciate that ignorance is no defence but I must have inadvertently ticked the option on my Trainline account

I have looked at my ticket history are there are

12 journeys Trowbridge to Bath Spa (return)

2 journeys Trowbridge to Exeter (return)

1 journey Trowbridge to Cardiff

I gave my correct and full name, address, phone number and email address

I have now unchecked the railcard option

I will await correspondence from GWR and would be prepared to enter into a settlement if offered

Is that a likely outcome

 

[jfollows]

Yes.

In your response you primarily need to indicate your understanding of your error and what they’re primarily looking for is an assurance that you won’t do it again. The settlement will be based on full single fares for journeys made incorrectly using a railcard, no credit given for what you paid, plus an administration fee.

24x£8.30 + 4x£46.70 + £30.10 + ~£100 for example, my figures may not be completely precise but think of ~£500.

Plenty of example letters here to GWR and others along similar lines, so I suggest you draft a proposed response here for when you need it and people can suggest improvements as appropriate.

If you are eligible for a railcard and have now bought one, mention this in your response.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which railcard was selected?

 

[Sabbath78]

Which railcard was selected?

Senior railcard

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Sabbath78. Welcome to the forum. Looking at your journey history (if correct/complete) reckon that you'll very likely be asked to pay £8.30 (Anytime Day Single fare) for the various Trowbridge->Bath Spa return trips (= 24 x one way journeys), £46.70 (Anytime Day Single fare) for each Trowbridge->Exeter return trip (= 4 x one way journeys) and £30.10 (Anytime Day Single) for the recent Trowbridge->Cardiff trip. Maybe a little less if any of the journeys were made before the March 2025 fares increase.

So, reckon you'll be asked to pay ballpark maybe £400 in fares due, with a three figure admin / investigation fee added on top. Expensive, but hopefully still affordable to resolve the issue.

P.S. How are you planning on getting back to Trowbridge from Cardiff? Was that going to be using an already-purchased but inappropriately discounted ticket?

 

[Sabbath78]

Yes.

In your response you primarily need to indicate your understanding of your error and what they’re primarily looking for is an assurance that you won’t do it again. The settlement will be based on full single fares for journeys made incorrectly using a railcard, no credit given for what you paid, plus an administration fee.

24x£8.30 + 4x£46.70 + £30.10 + ~£100 for example, my figures may not be completely precise but think of ~£500.

Plenty of example letters here to GWR and others along similar lines, so I suggest you draft a proposed response here for when you need it and people can suggest improvements as appropriate.

If you are eligible for a railcard and have now bought one, mention this in your response.

Thank you for your prompt reply together with the enclosed information

I will definitely use the example letter template

Whilst an extreme measure I am going to buy my tickets from the ticket machine in Trowbridge to avoid any future errors

@Sabbath78. Welcome to the forum. Looking at your journey history (if correct/complete) reckon that you'll very likely be asked to pay £8.30 (Anytime Day Single fare) for the various Trowbridge->Bath Spa return trips (= 24 x one way journeys), £46.70 (Anytime Day Single fare) for each Trowbridge->Exeter return trip (= 4 x one way journeys) and £30.10 (Anytime Day Single) for the recent Trowbridge->Cardiff trip. Maybe a little less if any of the journeys were made before the March 2025 fares increase.

So, reckon you'll be asked to pay ballpark maybe £400 in fares due, with a three figure admin / investigation fee added on top. Expensive, but hopefully still affordable to resolve the issue.

P.S. How are you planning on getting back to Trowbridge from Cardiff? Was that going to be using an already-purchased but inappropriately discounted ticket?

Yes the return journey was on an inappropriately discounted ticket

 

[John R]

You may get that journey included any settlement option as well. It was rather unwise to use that ticket as you could have been stopped again, although I suspect that would be unlikely as tickets are not usually checked when entering the station after match days.

Was it definitely GWR which stopped you, not TfW at Cardiff Central?

I guess the day went from bad to worse for you too?

 

[Sabbath78]

You may get that journey included any settlement option as well. It was rather unwise to use that ticket as you could have been stopped again, although I suspect that would be unlikely as tickets are not usually checked when entering the station after match days.

I guess the day went from bad to worse for you too?

I was given a new ticket which I was prepared to pay for

The day did get worse as Bath were beaten by Bristol and the trains homeward were rammed

 

[jfollows]

Whilst an extreme measure I am going to buy my tickets from the ticket machine in Trowbridge to avoid any future errors

My suggestion would be to look up train fares using https://www.brfares.com/!home before purchase so you know what you should be paying and can spot any discrepancy. It’s what I normally do, anyway.

 

[John R]

I was given a new ticket which I was prepared to pay for

The day did get worse as Bath were beaten by Bristol and the trains homeward were rammed

That seems inconsistent with your answer in #6 that it was on an inappropriately discounted ticket?

It’s not going to change the dial much in terms of any amount you are likely to have to pay.

 

[Sabbath78]

You may get that journey included any settlement option as well. It was rather unwise to use that ticket as you could have been stopped again, although I suspect that would be unlikely as tickets are not usually checked when entering the station after match days.

Was it definitely GWR which stopped you, not TfW at Cardiff Central?

I guess the day went from bad to worse for you too?

It was definitely GWR as that is the train operators name on the card I was given

 

[Tevion539]

Was it definitely GWR which stopped you, not TfW at Cardiff Central?

It’s possible. GWR Revenue Protection were assisting at Cardiff Central recently.

 

[John R]

It’s possible. GWR Revenue Protection were assisting at Cardiff Central recently.

Yes, that was confirmed in the response to my question. Probably no bad thing given GWR appears easier to deal with than TfW's representatives.

 

[Sabbath78]

Yes, that was confirmed in the response to my question. Probably no bad thing given GWR appears easier to deal with than TfW's representatives.

Thank you for your responses and enclosed information

The card given to me is from GWR

Is the most likely course of action a settlement?

 

[John R]

Thank you for your responses and enclosed information

The card given to me is from GWR

Is the most likely course of action a settlement?

Yes.

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .From what I've read of GWR cases on here they certainly do seem to be one of the most lenient TOC's in dealing with fare and ticket irregularities so if you're offered a P.F. or Settlement, please pay them promptly so you keep their goodwill, and take great care with your railcards etc., for future ticket purchases!

Chris Williams

 

[Sabbath78]

. . .From what I've read of GWR cases on here they certainly do seem to be one of the most lenient TOC's in dealing with fare and ticket irregularities so if you're offered a P.F. or Settlement, please pay them promptly so you keep their goodwill, and take great care with your railcards etc., for future ticket purchases!

Chris Williams

Thank you for your advice and my intention is to pay in full if offered a settlement

I will not be buying any rail tickets via the Trainline app instead using the ticket machine within Trowbridge train station along with double checking that the fare I am paying is correct for the journey

 

[saismee]

Thank you for your advice and my intention is to pay in full if offered a settlement

I will not be buying any rail tickets via the Trainline app instead using the ticket machine within Trowbridge train station along with double checking that the fare I am paying is correct for the journey

Keep in mind that these tickets are still traceable if paid for by card. Also, you won't be able to buy advance tickets at a ticket machine for any journey, which could end up costing a lot more. It's better to just mark the date that your railcard expires (or a few days in advance so you can renew it early) so this doesn't ever happen again.

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .Add your Railcard Expiry Date as a Google Calendar Event and set a three–day (or longer if you've to wait for monthly salary, etc., in which case set an event for the day you're paid before it expires!) event with an alarm on it!

Chris Williams

 

[6Gman]

It's not clear whether the OP has ever held a railcard or is entitled to one.

So talk of renewal dates may be irrelevant.

 

[Sabbath78]

Hi I never held or was entitled to one, I inadvertently/mistakenly must have checked the option within my Trainline account

 

[Spud7318]

Hi I never held or was entitled to one, I inadvertently/mistakenly must have checked the option within my Trainline account

Sorry, but you have to specifically click a railcard to get it applied, so mistakenly doesn’t really apply, and no TOC would believe that explanation

 

[Sabbath78]

I really do not understand how this occurred and that’s what I am struggling with especially as I made no application

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry, but you have to specifically click a railcard to get it applied, so mistakenly doesn’t really apply, and no TOC would believe that explanation

Just to comment - these things do happen I'm sure.

I don't think it matters much if GWR believe it or not as a reason (it would only matter I think if that made them more likely to prosecute) but from what we see on here GWR are pragmatic and regularly settle out of court with people who co-operate with them. So if @Sabbath78 goes down that route with advice from here I suspect they will have a very good chance of securing a settlement out of court.

 

[Sabbath78]

I will certainly cooperate

When the letter arrives inviting a response would it be more prudent to use the letter template posted on the forum not to mention this being a mistake instead focussing upon

How sorry I was
Assurances and measures this wont happen again
A preference to settle and pay any outstanding fares along with admin fees

If they did prosecute what would the most likely worst case scenario be

As mentioned before I have no intention of using the Trainline app from here on in