Is an NS InterCity Direct supplement needed on an international journey with an Interrail card?

[AdamWW]

Does anyone know if an Intercity Direct supplement is required to travel from Brussels to Amsterdam with an Interrail pass?

The rules seem to say that the supplement is not required for international journeys, but say that it's because it's included in the ticket price. I'm not sure if that would be considered the case with an interrail card, though I don't know how you would buy the supplement in Belgium.

I can't see anything explicitly on the subject...

 

[biko]

You are making an international journey, so no supplement is required. The Interrail planner app also doesn’t show that you need to pay anything at all if planning this journey. I cannot find something explicit but I wouldn’t worry as it will be very clear that you’re making an international journey as the diary will show it.

 

[AdamWW]

You are making an international journey, so no supplement is required. The Interrail planner app also doesn’t show that you need to pay anything at all if planning this journey. I cannot find something explicit but I wouldn’t worry as it will be very clear that you’re making an international journey as the diary will show it.

Thanks.

This is perhaps one of the few cases that the travel diary is needed to determine what supplement is required.

Edited to add: possibly I'm missing something but the Interrail app doesn't seem to show a supplement for journeys between Rotterdam and Amsterdam, where I presume that one would be required.

 

[DanielB]

According to The Man in Seat 61 there is no supplement required for domestic trips using IC direct either. Makes sense as Interrail is already an international ticket by itself.

However, unless you just want to get in Amsterdam quickly, the non high speed line is much more interesting in terms of scenery. Rotterdam to Schiphol is spent for a significant part in either tunnels or cuttings.
And the rolling stock itself can also be experienced on the supplement free parts of the high speed line (Rotterdam to Breda).

 

[AdamWW]

According to The Man in Seat 61 there is no supplement required for domestic trips using IC direct either. Makes sense as Interrail is already an international ticket by itself.

However, unless you just want to get in Amsterdam quickly, the non high speed line is much more interesting in terms of scenery. Rotterdam to Schiphol is spent for a significant part in either tunnels or cuttings.
And the rolling stock itself can also be experienced on the supplement free parts of the high speed line (Rotterdam to Breda).

Thanks. That does make sense - there's no supplement to use an Interrail pass in the Netherlands on an ICE or the IC to Berlin, and the supplement on Intercity Direct is the same.
(Unlike the penalty for not getting a supplement when you should, which appears to be much higher on an ICE than on the Intercity Direct).

I've done the route both ways, but on this occasion I'd rather go for speed and convenience (paying the supplement if it was necessary).

 

[blackfive460]

Using Interrail I have made both domestic and international journeys on ICD services and have never had, or been asked for, a reservation supplement. You should be fine.

Edit: Correcting my obvious error!

 

[DanielB]

Thanks. That does make sense - there's no supplement to use an Interrail pass in the Netherlands on an ICE or the IC to Berlin, and the supplement on Intercity Direct is the same.

Yeah, can imagine it's pretty confusing with all those supplements... Intercity direct does have a supplement for all domestic passengers, ICE only for full fare tickets (having any NS subscription allows for supplement free domestic ICE usage). And IC Berlin is integrated in the domestic network thus supplement free.
So Interrail is actually an exception with no supplement for all three of them.

(Unlike the penalty for not getting a supplement when you should, which appears to be much higher on an ICE than on the Intercity Direct).

Bit weird indeed that on ICE the penalty for no supplement is the same as for travelling without a valid ticket.

Using Interrail I have made both domestic and international journeys on ICD services and have never had, or been asked for, a reservation.

Reservations are not even possible on any IC-direct (or any domestic service). The IC direct supplement is just a surcharge via which you contribute to the very high track access charges NS has to pay for using the high speed line.

You could consider the existence of such a surcharge weird, as the fare structure itself already makes a trip on the high speed line relatively expensive. Rotterdam - Amsterdam has the same number of fare units for the oldest route via Haarlem, the newer one via Leiden - Schiphol and the newest one via the high speed line. In kilometres the route via the high speed line however is almost 20 km shorter.

 

[AdamWW]

Yeah, can imagine it's pretty confusing with all those supplements... Intercity direct does have a supplement for all domestic passengers, ICE only for full fare tickets (having any NS subscription allows for supplement free domestic ICE usage). And IC Berlin is integrated in the domestic network thus supplement free.

To be honest I find the entire public transport system in the Netherlands somewhat unhelpful to those unfamiliar with it and not a regular user. (OK the UK "system" is not exactly simple either, but I find transport in other European countries generally more straightforward to use).

Anyway thanks for people who responded in this thread, though I did realise somewhat late that I'd be getting off in Rotterdam and therefore the supplement wouldn't apply anyway...

 

[DanielB]

To be honest I find the entire public transport system in the Netherlands somewhat unhelpful to those unfamiliar with it and not a regular user.

To what extend the system is unhelpful here? Might be that I'm missing something being a frequent public transport user and being active in a regional public transport interest group, but always happy to help.

 

[AdamWW]

To what extend the system is unhelpful here? Might be that I'm missing something being a frequent public transport user and being active in a regional public transport interest group, but always happy to help.

As an example, I recently used the local transport systems in Prague, Munich and Amsterdam.

In Prague I bought a day ticket for everyone, made sure it was stamped on first use then all I had to do was carry it around and make sure to get new ones after 24 hours.

Munich would have been similar (with a bit more attention to what zones I needed) if it wasn't for the 9 Euro tickets currently available.

In Amsterdam you have to tap your day ticket every time you get on and off a bus or tram even though you've paid for 24 hours unlimited travel. I don't know if it really stops working if you forget to tap off (I dson't know why it should) but that's what the rules say and I was firmly told to do so by the conductor on the tram who sold them. It's not very convenient, especially when you're travelling in a group and have to make sure everyone does it properly.

In Prague and Munich everything was integrated so one day ticket covered all forms of transport including local trains even though they had a different operator to trams and buses etc.

So far as I can see in the Netherlands you have two options for local travel - tickets valid for a certain period (say 2 hours or 24 hours) but only on one operator (and rather expensive for a short single journey), or get an OV chipkaart. As I understand it an anonyumous chipkaart is 7.50 Euro per person to buy, and then there's the hassle of making sure that everyone's card is sufficiently topped up. I don't know if you can get the left over balance back at the end but if you can it's still more hassle.

Going back a few years, the Netherlands were unusual in my experience in that NS ticket machines (apart from Schiphol) wouldn't take credit cards but I think they did take some kind of debit card widely used in the Netherlands and not available to visitors.

It surprises me that such a small country seems not to cater particularly well for foreigners. (I also find it interesting that the NS journey planner won't do international journeys - it sends you to a separate web site unlike the Czech or Germain planners).

I wouldn't say that the UK system is particularly friendly towards foreign visitors either, but we are a bit more isolated as a country so it's perhaps more understandable.

 

[DanielB]

In Amsterdam you have to tap your day ticket every time you get on and off a bus or tram even though you've paid for 24 hours unlimited travel. I don't know if it really stops working if you forget to tap off (I dson't know why it should) but that's what the rules say and I was firmly told to do so by the conductor on the tram who sold them. It's not very convenient, especially when you're travelling in a group and have to make sure everyone does it properly.

It won't stop working and you'll only have a problem when encountering a ticket inspector. But that's one of the quirks of the OV-chipcard system indeed, even a season ticket is only valid when tapped in (though no one makes in issue of it in case you've got unlimited travel). Also related to the funding structure: the earnings are distributed over the operators based on check-ins. Prague and Munich are large enough to have a local transport authority which divides income in some way, but in the Netherlands this is often organized at provincial level (so a much bigger area).

So far as I can see in the Netherlands you have two options for local travel - tickets valid for a certain period (say 2 hours or 24 hours) but only on one operator (and rather expensive for a short single journey), or get an OV chipkaart. As I understand it an anonyumous chipkaart is 7.50 Euro per person to buy, and then there's the hassle of making sure that everyone's card is sufficiently topped up. I don't know if you can get the left over balance back at the end but if you can it's still more hassle.

Various regions have regional day tickets or regional tickets for single trips, whcih are valid at multiple operators. Most notable ones are the Amsterdam Region travel ticket and the Holland travel ticket, but there are more. However those regional offers are often not that easy to find as you'd either need to know the website of the regional operator or the promotional website of the provincial transport authority.
The OV-chipcard is indeed often the cheapest for short trips (but for day trips one of the regional offers may be cheaper). In the coming year the situation will however improve with the introduction of contactless bank-/creditcards as payment method at the validators on the vehicles. Those will then charge the same fare as an OV-chipcard would charge.

Going back a few years, the Netherlands were unusual in my experience in that NS ticket machines (apart from Schiphol) wouldn't take credit cards but I think they did take some kind of debit card widely used in the Netherlands and not available to visitors.

They used to accept debit cards only, also foreign ones (but as discussed elsewhere a debit Mastercard might not work) and coins. But nowadays all of them will accept creditcards.

 

[Cloud Strife]

They used to accept debit cards only, also foreign ones (but as discussed elsewhere a debit Mastercard might not work) and coins. But nowadays all of them will accept creditcards.

I could never get over the ridiculousness of NS machines not accepting banknotes. Has this finally changed?

 

[DanielB]

I could never get over the ridiculousness of NS machines not accepting banknotes. Has this finally changed?

No this hasn't changed an will probably never change. Ticket machines accepting banknotes have always been rare in the Netherlands: RET had them, but those required you to iron the banknotes first before it would accept them.

Could be in the history: the machines were introduced as an addition when even very small stations still had a ticket office (albeit with limited opening hours). And when those were closed card payment was already taking off.
Except for cash loving Germany, I don't know a lot of mainland European countries accepting Notes on ticket machines by the way.

 

[AdamWW]

It won't stop working and you'll only have a problem when encountering a ticket inspector. But that's one of the quirks of the OV-chipcard system indeed, even a season ticket is only valid when tapped in (though no one makes in issue of it in case you've got unlimited travel). Also related to the funding structure: the earnings are distributed over the operators based on check-ins. Prague and Munich are large enough to have a local transport authority which divides income in some way, but in the Netherlands this is often organized at provincial level (so a much bigger area).

I'm not sure how much the area is an issue (and the Prague integrated ticket zone seems to extend around 100 km from Prague in any case).
To me it looks like a decision to make distributing income as accurate as possible at the expense of convenience for passengers.

Various regions have regional day tickets or regional tickets for single trips, whcih are valid at multiple operators. Most notable ones are the Amsterdam Region travel ticket and the Holland travel ticket, but there are more. However those regional offers are often not that easy to find as you'd either need to know the website of the regional operator or the promotional website of the provincial transport authority.
The OV-chipcard is indeed often the cheapest for short trips (but for day trips one of the regional offers may be cheaper). In the coming year the situation will however improve with the introduction of contactless bank-/creditcards as payment method at the validators on the vehicles. Those will then charge the same fare as an OV-chipcard would charge.

As it happens I recently made two trips on the ferry to the Hook of Holland. The first time I bought a 2 hour ticket for 4 Euros to get into Rotterdam.
This time I was planning on using more (non rail) transport in the country so I paid my Euro 7.50 for a anonymous card, tapped in at the Hook of Holland then tapped out at Schiedam...to find out I'd spent over 4 Euros and with around 90 minutes of my 2 hours left. So not the cheapest for that trip. It certainly saved money on short bus trips though, and it seems that getting a tram to the end of the line then coming straight back counts as a change (so no new boarding fee charged) which I wasn't expecting.

Being able to use a credit card would certainly be useful for visitors.

They used to accept debit cards only, also foreign ones (but as discussed elsewhere a debit Mastercard might not work) and coins. But nowadays all of them will accept creditcards.

Well there was a time when my UK bank visa debit card didn't work in the NS ticket machines.

I don't know if it's true because I didn't try it but I read that nowadays the OV card top-up machines in shops don't work with foreign debit or credit cards.

And as for the question I started this thread with...I realised somewhat belatedly that I would only need to go as far as Rotterdam and therefore the supplement wouldn't be applicable anyway. Ooops! But thanks to everyone for their replies.

 

[DanielB]

and it seems that getting a tram to the end of the line then coming straight back counts as a change (so no new boarding fee charged) which I wasn't expecting.

That's correct. After a check-out any check-in within 35 minutes will count as a change.
This applies to both trains and bus/tram/metro, but in a slightly different way: for trains your long distance discount will continue, for bus/tram/metro the boarding fee is not charged.

I don't know if it's true because I didn't try it but I read that nowadays the OV card top-up machines in shops don't work with foreign debit or credit cards.

Don't know that either. When living near a station using the machines over there is usually easier than having to look for a store with a top-up machine. (The station is open all day, while the nearest store with a top-up machine for me is only open during office hours)

To me it looks like a decision to make distributing income as accurate as possible at the expense of convenience for passengers.

When the chipcard was introduced, the rule was that the fares should be such that the income of the operator didn't increase or decrease.
There were situations however where the boundary between zones (used for the strippenkaart in the past) was inconvenient for passengers (and convenient for the income of the operator). And some of those towns happen to have relatively high fares per kilometre for the local buses now, as suddenly the fares were based on a fair distance instead of an arbitrary fare zone boundary.

 

[AdamWW]

There were situations however where the boundary between zones (used for the strippenkaart in the past) was inconvenient for passengers (and convenient for the income of the operator). And some of those towns happen to have relatively high fares per kilometre for the local buses now, as suddenly the fares were based on a fair distance instead of an arbitrary fare zone boundary.

I think having fares based directly on distance (+ the boarding charge) is an excellent scheme and having to remember to tap out for single journeys is well worth the hassle.

It's a long way from the usual situation in the UK where in the last few decades bus companies have generally moved to relatively high fares for short journeys or just flat fares (though the buses where I live have started to acquire "tap-out" points so maybe there is a plan to move to a more Dutch-like system).

 

[D6130]

Except for cash loving Germany, I don't know a lot of mainland European countries accepting Notes on ticket machines by the way.

Slightly OT....but most Italian ticket machines still accept cash.

 

[DanielB]

It's a long way from the usual situation in the UK where in the last few decades bus companies have generally moved to relatively high fares for short journeys or just flat fares (though the buses where I live have started to acquire "tap-out" points so maybe there is a plan to move to a more Dutch-like system).

Just don't do it the Dutch way then, as the inconvenience here is the huge difference in fares from region to region. Just have a look at this list with all different regional fares, and how monthly and yearly tickets work also differs from region to region.
Flat fares do exist here as well by the way: Lelystad has them and the neighbourhood-buses here in the Utrecht province as well.

And while fares based on distance are much more fair than the previous system, the lack of integration can be a big hurdle. For example: I've got an annual season ticket for my bus to work, but this bus only takes me to a station near work. From there I usually cycle to work, but should I want to take the bus it's only one stop. In a different franchise however, so my season ticket is not valid and I'll have to pay both the boarding charge and the distance making the trip rather expensive for that one stop.