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Is Cambridge-Farringdon valid via Liverpool Street and Elizabeth line?

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XmaX

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BR Fares shows those fares marked as NOT UNDERGROUND - but surely, Elizabeth Line is not classed as Underground?
When putting this to a journey planner, direct Thameslink train or Great Northern to King's Cross, then changing at St Pancras shows correct price of £39.70 (with 16-25 railcard). If I add Liverpool Street as a stop, then it suggests doing Cambridge - London Zone 1 for £42.35. Is this correct?

I am also assuming that Cambridge-London Thameslink return is not valid on the Greater Anglia trains to Liverpool Street?

Bonus question: regular Cambridge-London ticket allows for a tube journey between King's Cross St Pancras and Moorgate. Assuming break of journey is allowed at Farringdon, wouldn't that also make sense for the regular Cambridge-London Terminals ticket to be valid to Farringdon (including on the direct Thameslink train)?
 
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alistairlees

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Elizabeth line is classed as underground, in the core at least, for ticketing purposes.
 

Watershed

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BR Fares shows those fares marked as NOT UNDERGROUND - but surely, Elizabeth Line is not classed as Underground?
The Elizabeth line is not part of the Underground; it is operated by MTR Corporation (Crossrail) Limited, which is an operator listed as one of the Train Companies in Appendix A of the NRCoT. Accordingly, a "not Underground" restriction has no legal effect on your ability to use Elizabeth line services. However, TfL have invented a rule whereby they claim that National Rail tickets must include Underground validity, if they are to be valid on the Elizabeth line's "core" section.

So whilst the legal position is that such tickets are valid on the Elizabeth line, the practical position is that the staff at the barriers at the Elizabeth line "core" stations are employed by London Underground, and have been told to apply TfL's above-mentioned policy. So there is every likelihood that you'll wrongly be denied entry or exit and have to claim back the cost of any additional fare you have to pay.

When putting this to a journey planner, direct Thameslink train or Great Northern to King's Cross, then changing at St Pancras shows correct price of £39.70 (with 16-25 railcard). If I add Liverpool Street as a stop, then it suggests doing Cambridge - London Zone 1 for £42.35. Is this correct?
The journey planner is correctly applying the rules that the industry bodies have said should be applied (i.e. in accordance with TfL's made-up policy).

I am also assuming that Cambridge-London Thameslink return is not valid on the Greater Anglia trains to Liverpool Street?
I would say that it is - based on the fact that London Thameslink is a station group incorporating Farringdon, and travelling via Liverpool Street is the shortest route to Farringdon, so it is inherently permitted (the "not Underground" routing not excluding the use of the Elizabeth line, as discussed above). However, again, you are likely to experience difficulties entering, exiting or interchanging at the Liverpool Street barriers as the industry policy claims that London Thameslink does not incorporate validity to Liverpool Street.

Bonus question: regular Cambridge-London ticket allows for a tube journey between King's Cross St Pancras and Moorgate. Assuming break of journey is allowed at Farringdon
The interavailability of ECML tickets between Kings Cross and Moorgate on the Underground doesn't allow for break of journey at the intermediate stations, so this issue doesn't arise. There may be tickets that are nevertheless valid for break of journey at Farringdon, but it wouldn't be under the Underground interavailability provisions.

wouldn't that also make sense for the regular Cambridge-London Terminals ticket to be valid to Farringdon (including on the direct Thameslink train)?
The ticketing rules and policies for Thameslink and the Elizabeth line are a complete mess; frivolities such as common sense don't come into it! :lol:
 

XmaX

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Thanks for the replies.

Another oddity I found, is that BR Fares seems to suggest that a regular Cambridge-London Terminals tickets is valid to City Thameslink, Blackfriars and London Bridge (but not Farringdon). Surely, this can't be true?
 

JB_B

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Thanks for the replies.

Another oddity I found, is that BR Fares seems to suggest that a regular Cambridge-London Terminals tickets is valid to City Thameslink, Blackfriars and London Bridge (but not Farringdon). Surely, this can't be true?
All that's implied is that the ticket is valid to the members of London Terminals fares group ( which includes City Thameslink, Blackfriars and London Bridge but doesn't include Farringdon.)

That doesn't mean that a permitted route (over which a service runs) exists from Cambridge to all members of the group. In the case of City Thameslink, Blackfriars, London Bridge (and others) no such route exists.
 

alistairlees

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It’s not true. BR fares showed where fares are set to, not where they are valid to.
 
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