Is UK the world recordholder/leader in railway preservation?

[railfan99]

In 2021, this list indicated (omitting 'new builds' such as Tornado and industrial locomotives) the UK may have had about 126 preserved locomotives 'in steam':

UK Preserved Steam Locomotives 2021

A listing of all standard gauge steam locumotives in preservation in the UK. Including those on permanent static display and those that are operational (highlighted), being overhauled or being restored. The new-build engines show the present situation in 2021.

www.bsswebsite.me.uk

It's an outstanding achievement, even if it's a small percentage of the fleet in late 1968 when the last 'official' steam loco in service had the fire extinguished.

Is the UK the world leader?

Off the top of my head, Germany may be #2, but I've only been on one preserved railway there: an enjoyable trip starting in the Dresden suburbs, adjacent to the main line railway station.

In Australia, we may have fewer than 40 operational steam locos, and that may be an overestimate: Transport Heritage NSW and Steamrail in Victoria are major operators, plus ARHS (Queensland), 707 Operations in Victoria and Steamranger in South Australia, as well as Puffing Billy in Melbourne and a few other tourist railways like Victorian Goldfields Railway at Castlemaine. There is the pesky break-of-gauge problem in the island continent.

I dips me lid, as an Antipodean saying goes, to those in the UK who work so hard to keep these magnificent beats operating, even if there are sad moments, such as 'City of Truro' never likely to again run and 60009 'Union of South Africa' destined for that owner's museum if it's not already there.

You have by far the best preserved railway scene in the world.

That boilers are only given a 10-year ticket seems a major constraint. In my country, I've never heard of any such restriction.

 

[trebor79]

That boilers are only given a 10-year ticket seems a major constraint. In my country, I've never heard of any such restriction.

I think it's a reasonable time period. The results of a boiler failing can be catastrophic, and issues can develop without any signs or symptoms until one day it goes BANG. 10 years seems to be achieving the aim of diagnosing problems before they become explosions and doesn't seem unreasonably onerous IMV.
The extent of the work required is determined by the boiler inspector. They may want all the tubes out, or a sample, or none depending upon the history and how well they "know" the boiler.
When I was looking after industrial boilers of a similar vintage (45 bar marine water tube boilers from circa 1972) they were subject to detailed annual inspection. Of course the result of a failure there could be even worse!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Miniature steam locomotives could be counted too, many of them could be described as 'preserved'.

 

[Cowley]

In 2021, this list indicated (omitting 'new builds' such as Tornado and industrial locomotives) the UK may have had about 126 preserved locomotives 'in steam':

UK Preserved Steam Locomotives 2021

A listing of all standard gauge steam locumotives in preservation in the UK. Including those on permanent static display and those that are operational (highlighted), being overhauled or being restored. The new-build engines show the present situation in 2021.

www.bsswebsite.me.uk

It's an outstanding achievement, even if it's a small percentage of the fleet in late 1968 when the last 'official' steam loco in service had the fire extinguished.

Is the UK the world leader?

Off the top of my head, Germany may be #2, but I've only been on one preserved railway there: an enjoyable trip starting in the Dresden suburbs, adjacent to the main line railway station.

In Australia, we may have fewer than 40 operational steam locos, and that may be an overestimate: Transport Heritage NSW and Steamrail in Victoria are major operators, plus ARHS (Queensland), 707 Operations in Victoria and Steamranger in South Australia, as well as Puffing Billy in Melbourne and a few other tourist railways like Victorian Goldfields Railway at Castlemaine. There is the pesky break-of-gauge problem in the island continent.

I dips me lid, as an Antipodean saying goes, to those in the UK who work so hard to keep these magnificent beats operating, even if there are sad moments, such as 'City of Truro' never likely to again run and 60009 'Union of South Africa' destined for that owner's museum if it's not already there.

You have by far the best preserved railway scene in the world.

That boilers are only given a 10-year ticket seems a major constraint. In my country, I've never heard of any such restriction.

Yes I think it is easy to take the amount of steam we have for granted at times. I think we’re lucky in the sense that the way things fell into place with lines closing as well as locos and stock becoming available, but also of course the amount of enthusiasts that were willing to put the money and effort in.

 

[railfan99]

Miniature steam locomotives could be counted too, many of them could be described as 'preserved'.

True, but I had to draw the line somewhere. Main line and branch line locos is what I've tried to count, thanks to that site.

I'd incorrectly thought UK only had about 75 operational so to get to 126 is a bonus, but testimony to your high number of preserved railways. Just great!

Yes I think it is easy to take the amount of steam we have for granted at times. I think we’re lucky in the sense that the way things fell into place with lines closing as well as locos and stock becoming available, but also of course the amount of enthusiasts that were willing to put the money and effort in.

Foreigners like me will always regard England as 'the home of railways' even if you've been overtake in speed and/or number of high speed rail lines by nations like Japan, and intensity of train working by say India.

You've been fortunate in that some clearly wealthy individuals in a society with a large disparity of income have a love for railways. That locos remained rusting away at scrapyards like Barry must have assisted. It intrigues me they weren't all quickly cut up for scrap.

 

[Cowley]

@railfan99 - Woodhams scrapyard at Barry is a fascinating story in itself. I’d highly recommend having a read through this thread when you’ve got the time:

Barry Scrapyard - Steam Locomotive Graveyard.

An interesting article has appeared on Media Wales about the Barry Scrapyard. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/locomotives-graveyard-hundreds-old-trains-14908147 A staggering number of steam engines were scrapped in that first wave of modernisation, but a peculiar quirk of...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[trebor79]

You've been fortunate in that some clearly wealthy individuals in a society with a large disparity of income have a love for railways. That locos remained rusting away at scrapyards like Barry must have assisted. It intrigues me they weren't all quickly cut up for scrap.

To cut a long story very short. At the time thousands of old coal waggons were being withdrawn and scrapped. Woodhams found it was cheaper and easier to cut up the waggons, so left the locomotives for when that work dried up.
They did cut up some of the locomotives when they had less or no waggon work on, and others had wheels cut off when they derailed, rather than bother to reraik them to shunt around.
Woodhams had to pay a fee to British Rail for every locomotive they sold, as the purchase contract expressly stated they were to be scrapped.

 

[Gloster]

The first loco left Barry in September 1968, only just after the end of BR steam, and the second in January 1969. After that Woodhams only scrapped four steam and (all) four diesel locos. Most of the scrapping seems to have come in two waves: late 1959 to early 1962 and in 1965; other than the eight locos mentioned above, cutting seems to have stopped in autumn 1965.

Source: The Barry Story (Beckett and Hardingham, Kingfisher, 2010), which includes a detailed listing of the locos involved (it includes ‘The Barry List’), as well as a short history of Woodhams and the economics behind it all.

 

[CarltonA]

I think it's a reasonable time period. The results of a boiler failing can be catastrophic, and issues can develop without any signs or symptoms until one day it goes BANG. 10 years seems to be achieving the aim of diagnosing problems before they become explosions and doesn't seem unreasonably onerous IMV.
The extent of the work required is determined by the boiler inspector. They may want all the tubes out, or a sample, or none depending upon the history and how well they "know" the boiler.

The 10 year ticket is not an absolute, I've heard. Indeed, if the boiler is well managed and the inspector "knows" the boiler concerned they can extend the time frame. Given that many locos were OOU for a while during the pandemic an 11 year ticket will be very welcome given the loss of earnings as operators are often paid per steaming by the heritage lines.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Doesn't the USA have a similar boiler ticket system in place for heritage lines? I'm sure I've heard Americans mention something that's vaguely analogous to the UK regulations.

 

[trebor79]

The 10 year ticket is not an absolute, I've heard. Indeed, if the boiler is well managed and the inspector "knows" the boiler concerned they can extend the time frame. Given that many locos were OOU for a while during the pandemic an 11 year ticket will be very welcome given the loss of earnings as operators are often paid per steaming by the heritage lines.

Depends if the boiler has been drained, dried out and dehumidified. If it's just been sat for a year or two, who knows what's been going on inside it? I've not heard of inspectors granting extensions due to disuse. Doesn't mean it can't happen of course but I don't think it would be the norm.
The 10 years applies regardless of whether the loco is steamed several times a week or once a month.

 

[Ashley Hill]

cutting seems to have stopped in autumn 1965.

Wasn’t there some cutting in 1980? IITR a 9F and a few others went at the same time as the diesels.

 

[Gloster]

Wasn’t there some cutting in 1980? IITR a 9F and a few others went at the same time as the diesels.

76080 was cut up in 1972 and 3817 the next year, while 4156 and 92085 went in 1980. D600 and D8206 were cut in 1970, and D601 and D6122 ten years later.

 

[Harvester]

Woodhams scrapyard at Barry is a fascinating story in itself.

It’s fascinating to note the number of Bulleid Pacifics that ended up there. If it had not been for the wagon contracts, delaying most of the loco scrapping, then no rebuilt light Pacifics would exist. Only MN 35028, and unrebuilt WC/BB 34023/34051 going directly into preservation would have survived.

 

[simonw]

Doesn't the USA have a similar boiler ticket system in place for heritage lines? I'm sure I've heard Americans mention something that's vaguely analogous to the UK regulations.

The American system is I believe based on the number of steamings rather than time elapsed

 

[DelW]

The American system is I believe based on the number of steamings rather than time elapsed

Actually it's either 1472 days in use, or 15 years, whichever comes first:

49 CFR § 230.17 - One thousand four hundred seventy-two (1472) service day inspection.

www.law.cornell.edu

Before any steam locomotive is initially put in service or brought out of retirement, and after every 1472 service days or 15 years, whichever is earlier, an individual competent to conduct the inspection shall inspect the entire boiler.

 

[Gloster]

Actually it's either 1472 days in use, or 15 years, whichever comes first:

They should have made it 1492.

 

[Ediswan]

Actually it's either 1472 days in use, or 15 years, whichever comes first:

A weird number, almost but not quite four years. The best (only) explanation I found is that this is what happens when the Gregorian calendar meets US Federal bureaucracy.
https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/740/t/216658.aspx

Overmod

I understand it a bit like this:

Reports are quarterly. The Feds want a 'metric' that is consistent on a pure 'quarterly' basis. Therefore we're going to calculate using a 'quarter' as the basis for statutory measurement, but then express the result in 'days'

Assume for a moment that we don't care about a calendar year as a measurement of elapsed time to servicing.

Now: starting at January first, what is the 'longest' quarter of a year you will have? This will be the standard length assigned to a 'quarter' to get a consistent length. Note that the two last quarters of the year will have 92 days (31+31+30) in them. So FRA standardizes on that length for a 'standard' quarter.

Four years, deemed to be 'four quarters each', produces 92 x 4 x 4 and voila! your day measurement.
Perhaps it may help to think of the '4 year' period as 'statutory' years, rather than irregular calendar years. It's an artifact of legislative interpretation, not a fundamental natural constant.

I doubt that you will get a complaint from the preservation community that they'd rather have the shorter 1461 days to a major just because the math works out more consistently if you're using a Gregorian calendar!

 

[341o2]

The UK is the world leader in one respect, the Tallylyn was the first railway in the world to be preserved.
Thankfully, Sir Hayd's widow, Lady Barbara, gave the society a chance, she was advised to close the line and sell it for scrap

 

[Calthrop]

The UK is the world leader in one respect, the Tallylyn was the first railway in the world to be preserved.
Thankfully, Sir Hayd's widow, Lady Barbara, gave the society a chance, she was advised to close the line and sell it for scrap

With the US references in this thread: had it not been for wider-world events, the world's-first-preserved-line title might have gone instead, to a US venture. The 2ft. gauge Bridgeton & Harrison, alias Bridgeton & Saco River, line in the State of Maine, was closed to all traffic in summer 1941. A group of railway enthusiasts were in the process of trying to acquire the line and reopen it -- context "labour of love" rather than commercial operation; but what happened at Pearl Harbor in December 1941, and developments therefrom, meant such frivolities having to be shelved for the next few years. By 1945, the line had been dismantled -- though its locos and some stock survived to be preserved elsewhere; and the "palm" went to the Talyllyn, a decade later than might have been the case if history had gone otherwise.