Kentish Town Platforms

[ole man]

The Thameslink programme is extending all platforms from Bedford all except Kentish Town why is this?
Is it because there is a bridge to the north, and a tunnel to the south?.
Why haven't Network Rail looked at doing something with this, after all they closed the Moorgate route just to extend Farringdon?

 

[Firestarter]

The answer to your question is yes. Not sure on network rail and why they can't do anything. You will also find that Cricklewood and Hendon are not being extended.

 

[swt_passenger]

Cricklewood is about the new Brent Cross station removing the need isn't it?

Going back to Kentish town though, it is the cost of extending the cutting at both ends that is the problem, however the initial plan for Thameslink services still has 6 tph of the 16 tph on the MML running as 8 car services, so they can still stop a reasonable number of trains there anyway.

Overall 10 tph of the 24 tph remain 8 car, so the balance on the GN side is 50/50 - '12 car Thameslink' is only just the majority, despite the fanfare...

 

[hawkeye]

http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/cms/pages/view/59. Stations are in order Bedford - London; Kentish Town is at the bottom.

 

[Firestarter]

http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/cms/pages/view/59.

Hendon

The platforms at Hendon are not being extended because there is insufficient demand to warrant 12-carriage trains calling there. However, there will be some reduction in crowding on trains as a result of 12-carriage trains calling at other stations from as early as December 2011.

Can someone explain how they belive there will a reduction in crowding as a result of 12-carriage trains calling at other stations. There will be a reduction between Bedford and St Albans but between Radlett and Kentish Town nothing will change.

 

[A-driver]

12 car trains cab still call at the 8 car platforms like Kentish town by simply using SDO. We use it a southern all the time - 8 cars running between dorking and Horsham on 4/6 car platforms. Just means if you leave the train at Kentish town you need to travel in the front 8 coaches.

 

[swt_passenger]

12 car trains cab still call at the 8 car platforms like Kentish town by simply using SDO. We use it a southern all the time - 8 cars running between dorking and Horsham on 4/6 car platforms. Just means if you leave the train at Kentish town you need to travel in the front 8 coaches.

Yes - but Thameslink don't intend to use SDO in that way. They intend to limit certain of their stations to their 8 car services, because there will be a significant number of their services that remain operated by 8 car trains...

 

[John Webb]

Hendon

The platforms at Hendon are not being extended because there is insufficient demand to warrant 12-carriage trains calling there. However, there will be some reduction in crowding on trains as a result of 12-carriage trains calling at other stations from as early as December 2011.

Can someone explain how they belive there will a reduction in crowding as a result of 12-carriage trains calling at other stations. There will be a reduction between Bedford and St Albans but between Radlett and Kentish Town nothing will change.

Isn't there a pattern of 'Semi-Fasts' from Luton calling all stations to Elstree & Borehamwood then fast into London? So these, when 12coach trains, will take additional passengers from St Albans-Elstree that might otherwise use the stopping trains from St Albans, thus making space on the all-stations trains. Well, I assume that's what FCC mean!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The heaviest overcrowding on FCC is St Albans , Elstree and Radlett - the "travelcard" stations of Hendon and Kentish Town are to be served by 8 car trains .......makes sense from a VFM point of view as well as passenger journeys - both named stations are the quietest on a very busy route.

 

[Bedpan]

Isn't there a pattern of 'Semi-Fasts' from Luton calling all stations to Elstree & Borehamwood then fast into London? So these, when 12coach trains, will take additional passengers from St Albans-Elstree that might otherwise use the stopping trains from St Albans, thus making space on the all-stations trains. Well, I assume that's what FCC mean!

Not at the moment, but there was 20 odd years ago - Bedford - Brightons ran alls stations to St Albans then fast to Kings Cross Thameslink; Bedford (or Luton, I can't remember which) - Guildford ran all stations to Mill Hill Broadway, then fast to Kings Cross Thameslink; Luton - Sevenoaks ran all stations to Kings Cross Thameslink, all 2tph. This can't have lasted very long though, as my winter 1993 - 1994 timetable (I knew that one day I'd be glad I kept it, and that's today!) shows 2tph Luton - Guildford stoppers and the 2tph to each of Sevenoaks and Brighton both fast from St Albans to London, giving a service pattern from Bedford - Harpenden much as it is today, although then, the stoppers didn't get overtaken by the fasts.

 

[Firestarter]

Not at the moment, but there was 20 odd years ago - Bedford - Brightons ran alls stations to St Albans then fast to Kings Cross Thameslink; Bedford (or Luton, I can't remember which) - Guildford ran all stations to Mill Hill Broadway, then fast to Kings Cross Thameslink; Luton - Sevenoaks ran all stations to Kings Cross Thameslink, all 2tph. This can't have lasted very long though, as my winter 1993 - 1994 timetable (I knew that one day I'd be glad I kept it, and that's today!) shows 2tph Luton - Guildford stoppers and the 2tph to each of Sevenoaks and Brighton both fast from St Albans to London, giving a service pattern from Bedford - Harpenden much as it is today, although then, the stoppers didn't get overtaken by the fasts.

Can I ask why not to the best of your knowledge?

 

[Bald Rick]

Hendon

The platforms at Hendon are not being extended because there is insufficient demand to warrant 12-carriage trains calling there. However, there will be some reduction in crowding on trains as a result of 12-carriage trains calling at other stations from as early as December 2011.

Can someone explain how they belive there will a reduction in crowding as a result of 12-carriage trains calling at other stations. There will be a reduction between Bedford and St Albans but between Radlett and Kentish Town nothing will change.

In the morning peak, a fair proportion of St Albans commuters choose to get the semi-fast or all stations services to get a seat, calculating that an 8/16 min slower journey is worth a bit of comfort. Indeed in the morning peak you simply can not get on some of the fast services so taking the semi-fast is a more reliable option.

When the 0738, 0802, and 0827 fasts are 12 car, there will be more chance of a seat, or at least comfortable standing room, from St Albans. So then the slower services will have more space available for the good folk from stations closer in.

 

[SAPhil]

In the morning peak, a fair proportion of St Albans commuters choose to get the semi-fast or all stations services to get a seat, calculating that an 8/16 min slower journey is worth a bit of comfort. Indeed in the morning peak you simply can not get on some of the fast services so taking the semi-fast is a more reliable option.

When the 0738, 0802, and 0827 fasts are 12 car, there will be more chance of a seat, or at least comfortable standing room, from St Albans. So then the slower services will have more space available for the good folk from stations closer in.

I am one of those commuters. I suspect that if it's raining, I won't be bothering with getting wet while waiting for the longer trains but will wait under cover for my usual semi-fast service! In my opinion, simply extending the platforms without some extra cover for rainy days is a big mistake.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I am one of those commuters. I suspect that if it's raining, I won't be bothering with getting wet while waiting for the longer trains but will wait under cover for my usual semi-fast service! In my opinion, simply extending the platforms without some extra cover for rainy days is a big mistake.

Thats a very good and valid point. The thing is providing shelter over the platform extensions costs money. And the country is skint!

 

[Firestarter]

Thats a very good and valid point. The thing is providing shelter over the platform extensions costs money. And the country is skint!

The country may be skint but are Network Rail? Whose responsibility it would come under?

 

[swt_passenger]

I can't think of many platforms with 12 car capability which have 12 car canopies, even at major termini. (Obviously there are exceptions such as the few Thameslink underground stations).

Have you thought of getting on from under the canopy and walking through the train? Or even buying a coat?

 

[Bald Rick]

It's not like the canopies ever extended to anywhere near 8 car length in the first place, so no change !

 

[Bedpan]

[/I][/B]

Can I ask why not to the best of your knowledge?

Slower journey times on the slows, and altered departure times.

The fasts are currently timed to leave 4 mins after the stoppers and overtake them somewhere around Hendon as a rule. Back in 1994 they left 11 mins after. Also, Luton to St Pancras International on the slow train is currently 50 mins whereas back in 1994 (admittedly without the stop at Luton Airport Parkway, the time from Luton to Kings Cross Thameslink was only 42 mins.

In other words, in 1994 the 15 mins past the hour slow from Luton used to arrive Kings Cross Thameslink at 57 past, and the following 26 mins past (fast from St Albans) arrived at Kings Cross Thameslink at 02 past.

Nowadays the 14 min past slow from Luton doesn't arrive St Pancras until 04, and the following 18 mins past fast from St Albans arrives at St Pancras at 54.

NB I have used onward departure times at St Pancras/Kings Cross Thameslink in the above examples.

 

[Firestarter]

Slower journey times on the slows, and altered departure times.

The fasts are currently timed to leave 4 mins after the stoppers and overtake them somewhere around Hendon as a rule. Back in 1994 they left 11 mins after. Also, Luton to St Pancras International on the slow train is currently 50 mins whereas back in 1994 (admittedly without the stop at Luton Airport Parkway, the time from Luton to Kings Cross Thameslink was only 42 mins.

In other words, in 1994 the 15 mins past the hour slow from Luton used to arrive Kings Cross Thameslink at 57 past, and the following 26 mins past (fast from St Albans) arrived at Kings Cross Thameslink at 02 past.

Nowadays the 14 min past slow from Luton doesn't arrive St Pancras until 04, and the following 18 mins past fast from St Albans arrives at St Pancras at 54.

NB I have used onward departure times at St Pancras/Kings Cross Thameslink in the above examples.

Did the trains still use the fast lines or was their no point since their was nothing to overtake?

 

[RichmondCommu]

The country may be skint but are Network Rail? Whose responsibility it would come under?

Don't forget that Network Rail is funded by the nation! And if the nation is skint that will have an impact on Network Rail. I dare say the government is waiting for Network Rail to start introducing efficiency savings before they start chucking cash at the railway network. And in my opinion quite rightly so!

 

[SAPhil]

I can't think of many platforms with 12 car capability which have 12 car canopies, even at major termini. (Obviously there are exceptions such as the few Thameslink underground stations).

Have you thought of getting on from under the canopy and walking through the train? Or even buying a coat?

Walking though a train in the morning peak? I think the longer trains will still be pretty full! I don't do coats.

Seriously though, the empty seats at St Albans will likely be right at the back. At the moment hanging about under the existing canopy when it rains and legging it down the platform when the train arrives is just about ok not so sure with longer platforms. I'm not talking anything major here - in the early days of the Farringdon refurb they installed some temporary covered areas along the open section of the platforms, a couple of these would do!

 

[Firestarter]

Walking though a train in the morning peak? I think the longer trains will still be pretty full! I don't do coats.

Seriously though, the empty seats at St Albans will likely be right at the back. At the moment hanging about under the existing canopy when it rains and legging it down the platform when the train arrives is just about ok not so sure with longer platforms. I'm not talking anything major here - in the early days of the Farringdon refurb they installed some temporary covered areas along the open section of the platforms, a couple of these would do!

A while back some-one invented something called a umbrella, not to sure what it does do!