Last scheduled passenger turn for Toffee Apple 31

[delt1c]

Carrying on from an earlier thread about vacuum braked and steam heat. When was the last scheduled passenger service that a 31 Toffee Apple worked in BR service

 

[Cowley]

Carrying on from an earlier thread about vacuum braked and steam heat. When was the last scheduled passenger service that a 31 Toffee Apple worked in BR service

Do you mean the original Stratford 31/0 class?

 

[delt1c]

Yep they were the toffee apples 31/0’s

 

[306024]

Can’t say what the last train worked was, but this link gives you their withdrawal dates:

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=29&type=D&page=fleet&var=1

 

[Harvester]

Saw 31017 on a visit to Liverpool Street station on 1/3/1979. IIRC it was on an empty stock working, a duty performed by the Stratford based survivors at that time. Not sure when their last passenger diagrams ended.

 

[Falcon1200]

I worked at Harlow Town from October 1978 to October 1980 and therefore travelled regularly on the loco-hauled trains which stopped there. During that time I recorded 31017 and 31019 for haulage, but stupidly my records from then are long gone. Sorry!

 

[Magdalia]

When was the last scheduled passenger service that a 31 Toffee Apple worked in BR service

The "Toffee Apple" Brush Type 2s have an important place in East Anglian railway history. But not much is known about their later years, when most enthusiasts were much more interested in "Westerns" and "Deltics". It doesn't help that most of their opportunities for passenger work were away from prying eyes: boat train reliefs to and from Parkeston, one way only peak time Cambridge line trains and nocturnal trains such as the 2145 Ipswich-Liverpool Street. When Traction published a list of last known class 31 passenger workings (issue 11 September 1995), the "Toffee Apples" were left out. Nearly 3 decades later the situation hasn't changed much, despite the development of databases such as Rail Gen Archive and photo sharing websites.

The 9 locos withdrawn in 1976 are particularly difficult, for example there are still no known passenger workings for 31011 after it received its TOPS number.

Of the remainder, 8 had their boilers isolated in 1977 and 1978. After that, only 31017 and 31019 retained working boilers, which helps to explain this:

During that time I recorded 31017 and 31019 for haulage

The available information suggests that 31019 was by far the most prolific in passenger service and, as it was in the final batch of withdrawals, it almost certainly made the last passenger workings.

31019 is known to have worked 1710 Liverpool Street-Cambridge on Friday 22 August 1980 then 0808 Cambridge to Liverpool Street on Saturday 23 August 1980. This was August Bank Holiday weekend, with a lot of relief trains running, and 31019 then also did 1026 Liverpool Street-Cambridge and 1220 back relief trains.

There are also reports that 31019 worked on the 13/14 September 1980 weekend, between Liverpool Street and Colchester. These are difficult to corroborate because it was a weekend when the OHL was isolated on the GEML for one of the 6.25kV to 25kV conversions, and a special timetable was in operation. If anyone has any details of the Liverpool Street-Colchester workings that weekend, that could be helpful.

Bank Holidays and weekend engineering work are both times when more locomotives would be needed for passenger work, increasing the chance of "Toffee Apple" activity.

but stupidly my records from then are long gone.

And this is an example of why making progress on this sort of research is so difficult. If anyone here still has their records, and can identify any "Toffee Apple" passenger workings, please share them here, and/or send them to Rail Gen Archive.

 

[delt1c]

The "Toffee Apple" Brush Type 2s have an important place in East Anglian railway history. But not much is known about their later years, when most enthusiasts were much more interested in "Westerns" and "Deltics". It doesn't help that most of their opportunities for passenger work were away from prying eyes: boat train reliefs to and from Parkeston, one way only peak time Cambridge line trains and nocturnal trains such as the 2145 Ipswich-Liverpool Street. When Traction published a list of last known class 31 passenger workings (issue 11 September 1995), the "Toffee Apples" were left out. Nearly 3 decades later the situation hasn't changed much, despite the development of databases such as Rail Gen Archive and photo sharing websites.

The 9 locos withdrawn in 1976 are particularly difficult, for example there are still no known passenger workings for 31011 after it received its TOPS number.

Of the remainder, 8 had their boilers isolated in 1977 and 1978. After that, only 31017 and 31019 retained working boilers, which helps to explain this:



The available information suggests that 31019 was by far the most prolific in passenger service and, as it was in the final batch of withdrawals, it almost certainly made the last passenger workings.

31019 is known to have worked 1710 Liverpool Street-Cambridge on Friday 22 August 1980 then 0808 Cambridge to Liverpool Street on Saturday 23 August 1980. This was August Bank Holiday weekend, with a lot of relief trains running, and 31019 then also did 1026 Liverpool Street-Cambridge and 1220 back relief trains.

There are also reports that 31019 worked on the 13/14 September 1980 weekend, between Liverpool Street and Colchester. These are difficult to corroborate because it was a weekend when the OHL was isolated on the GEML for one of the 6.25kV to 25kV conversions, and a special timetable was in operation. If anyone has any details of the Liverpool Street-Colchester workings that weekend, that could be helpful.

Bank Holidays and weekend engineering work are both times when more locomotives would be needed for passenger work, increasing the chance of "Toffee Apple" activity.


And this is an example of why making progress on this sort of research is so difficult. If anyone here still has their records, and can identify any "Toffee Apple" passenger workings, please share them here, and/or send them to Rail Gen Archive.

Thanks for that info , I was living in London in 70’s and 80’s and remember seeing the Toffee Apples on local freight and ECS at Liverpool St but never managed to see them on a passenger service

 

[37078xotTE]

Not much help I'm afraid compared to the notes above but my last Toffee apple was 019, working the 11:27 Cambridge - Liverpool Street on 20/11/1979

 

[Magdalia]

Not much help I'm afraid compared to the notes above but my last Toffee apple was 019, working the 11:27 Cambridge - Liverpool Street on 20/11/1979

Thanks, it all helps. "my last Toffee apple" implies there were others, and these could be last known workings for other locos.

 

[37078xotTE]

Thanks, it all helps. "my last Toffee apple" implies there were others, and these could be last known workings for other locos.

These are all the ones I have info on, though have no idea if they were "last's" or not:-

19/07/1978	31002 0809 Cambridge - Liverpool St
19/07/1978	31002 1136 Liverpool Street - Cambridge
19/07/1978	31002 1326 Cambridge - Liverpool St
25/08/1979	31004 0824 London Liverpool Street - Ipswich Relief
22/10/1977	31005 0803 RPPR Toffeeapple Farewell Paddington - Tytherington to Bristol Temple Meads
22/10/1977	31005 1128 Portishead - Paddington RPPR Toffeeapple Farewell
04/11/1977	31006 0555 Birmingham – Stafford
04/02/1976	31006 1921 Birmingham – Euston
17/06/1979	31008 0820 Cambridge - London Liverpool Street
11/09/1975	31015 2145 Ipswich – Liverpool St
10/09/1975	31016 0806 Cambridge – Liverpool St
11/05/1978	31017 1036 Liverpool Street - Kings Lynn
12/04/1979	31017 1715 Ipswich - Liverpool St
24/05/1978	31017 0430 London Liverpool Street - Norwich
26/03/1979	31017 0650 Cambridge - London Liverpool Street
22/03/1978	31017 1124 London Liverpool Street - Ipswich Relief
23/03/1978	31017 1415 Ipswich - London Liverpool Street
14/04/1979	31019 0708 Cambridge - Liverpool St
22/10/1977	31019 0803 Paddington - Portishead RPPR Toffeeapple Farewell
20/11/1979	31019 0936 Liverpool Street - Cambridge
20/11/1978	31019 0936 London Liverpool Street - Cambridge
20/11/1978	31019 1127 Cambridge - London Liverpool Street
20/11/1979	31019 1127 Cambridge - London Liverpool Street
22/10/1977	31019 1128 Portishead - Paddington RPPR Toffeeapple Farewell
12/04/1979	31019 1240 Harwich - Peterborough
21/06/1978	31019 1336 Liverpool Street - Cambridge
21/06/1978	31019 1538 Cambridge - London Liverpool Street
12/04/1979	31019 1645 Peterborough - Harwich PQ
20/09/1978	31019 1712 Liverpool Street - Cambridge
26/05/1979	31019 1826 Liverpool Street - Cambridge

 

[Magdalia]

These are all the ones I have info on, though have no idea if they were "last's" or not:-

Thanks very much for doing this. It is an impressive list. 31004 and 31016 are "lasts" on current information.

My working career has given me a sharp eye for possible transcription errors, and I have 3 questions!

22/03/1978	31017 1124 London Liverpool Street - Ipswich Relief
23/03/1978	31017 1415 Ipswich - London Liverpool Street

Might these be out and back on the same day? They look like Easter reliefs, as 24/03/78 was Good Friday.

20/11/1979	31019 0936 Liverpool Street - Cambridge
20/11/1978	31019 0936 London Liverpool Street - Cambridge
20/11/1978	31019 1127 Cambridge - London Liverpool Street
20/11/1979	31019 1127 Cambridge - London Liverpool Street

I have a corroborating source for 20/11/79. Are 20/11/78 duplicates or a very nice coincidence?

04/11/1977	31006 0555 Birmingham – Stafford
04/02/1976	31006 1921 Birmingham – Euston

Might these be typos for AM10 EMUs 31006x?

 

[37078xotTE]

Thanks very much for doing this. It is an impressive list. 31004 and 31016 are "lasts" on current information.

My working career has given me a sharp eye for possible transcription errors, and I have 3 questions!


Might these be out and back on the same day? They look like Easter reliefs, as 24/03/78 was Good Friday.


I have a corroborating source for 20/11/79. Are 20/11/78 duplicates or a very nice coincidence?


Might these be typos for AM10 EMUs 31006x?

I think they might well have been out and backs as you suggest.
My original source notes for all of these have long since disappeared so looking at these dates I think you might be right with them being duplicates.
Never really thought about it before but it's possible they might be AM10's and the mistake lies with my "EXCEL" formulas!! (If you think this is the case, remove them from your list's, as better to be safe)

 

[Magdalia]

I think they might well have been out and backs as you suggest.
My original source notes for all of these have long since disappeared so looking at these dates I think you might be right with them being duplicates.
Never really thought about it before but it's possible they might be AM10's and the mistake lies with my "EXCEL" formulas!! (If you think this is the case, remove them from your list's, as better to be safe)

Thanks. Excel is a great playground for the law of unintended consequences!

 

[Bevan Price]

Thanks. Excel is a great playground for the law of unintended consequences!

Yes, for example, if you write 310.060 into an Excel cell, it will lose the final zero unless you format the cell to display 3 decimal places.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, for example, if you write 310.060 into an Excel cell, it will lose the final zero unless you format the cell to display 3 decimal places.

It won't do that, however, if you just put a space between the class number and the identifier.

NB The example shown below is way out of date for me now...

 

[eastwestdivide]

Like phone numbers, train numbers aren’t for calculating with, they’re just identifiers/labels,, so format the Excel cells as text!
And yes, fully agree with the unintended consequences comment.