Last use of different liveries, and newest units to use blue/grey

[nw1]

A couple of related points here.

Namely, when were the last uses of various liveries from the BR years?
I do remember many liveries lasted well beyond their "official" replacement.

For example older units (EPBs, HAPs) were still using BR Blue as late as 1983, possibly into 1984, well after blue and grey was introduced (late 60s, I think).

Blue and grey lasted some way into NSE years, probably into the early 90s, I think I last saw it around 1990.

NSE lasted well into privatisation, still used on SWT (minus the "Network SouthEast" branding) around 1997, but not sure exactly how late?

Not sure about BR green, as that's before my time


Also a related point: what were the newest BR units to be blue and grey when new?
I clearly remember 455s being blue and grey (which they would be, as they pre-date NSE by about three years) and their contemporaries such as 317s would have been the same, but what about say 150s? Or were they "Provincial Sector" or metro liveries from new? Anything newer than that?

 

[gg1]

A couple of related points here.

Namely, when were the last uses of various liveries from the BR years?
I do remember many liveries lasted well beyond their "official" replacement.

For example older units (EPBs, HAPs) were still using BR Blue as late as 1983, possibly into 1984, well after blue and grey was introduced (late 60s, I think).

Blue and grey lasted some way into NSE years, perhaps into the early 90s though I don't have a definitive last date that I remember seeing it personally.

NSE lasted well into privatisation, still used on SWT (minus the "Network SouthEast" branding) around 1997, but not sure exactly how late?

Not sure about BR green, as that's before my time


Also a related point: what were the newest BR units to be blue and grey when new?
I clearly remember 455s being blue and grey (which they would be, as they pre-date NSE by about three years) and their contemporaries such as 317s would have been the same, but what about say 150s? Or were they "Provincial Sector" or metro liveries from new? Anything later?

I can answer the last part of the last question, none of the Sprinter classes ever carried blue & grey, though some pacers did, the prototype class 140 and some (although I don't think many) 141s.

 

[Magdalia]

For example older units (EPBs, HAPs) were still using BR Blue as late as 1983, possibly into 1984, well after blue and grey was introduced (late 60s, I think).

First generation DMUs lasted a long time in BR blue. The Gloucester/Craven power twin 53355/53812 was still in traffic in 1988 in BR blue.

Also a related point: what were the newest BR units to be blue and grey when new?

The GN class 317s 317349-372 were delivered some in blue and grey but others in NSE.

Blue and grey lasted some way into NSE years, probably into the early 90s, I think I last saw it around 1990.

Norwich had blue and grey Metro Cammell DMUs until 1992.

NSE lasted well into privatisation, still used on SWT (minus the "Network SouthEast" branding) around 1997, but not sure exactly how late?

Class 317s in NSE lasted until 2004, later if you count the LTS green stripe variant.

 

[Taunton]

Not sure about BR green, as that's before my time

The Southern had a process called "revarnishing", which in truth could use quite a lot of paint to restore appearance, it was just not a complete strip, undercoat, etc. From about 1950 they were told to use red/cream for express hauled stock, and all red for local. This was done notably slowly, apart of course from new vehicles, and by about 1957 it seemed that there was still more green than not, particularly for older coaches, having been only 'revarnished'. They were then allowed to use green again for hauled stock, and Wham! - the BR livery disappeared in notably short order.

 

[341o2]

The last use of BR Green was 3CIG 1498 Farringford and Blue/Grey was 1497 Freshwater, for the Lymington branch, both withdrawn 2010

 

[Royston Vasey]

I'm pretty sure that the latest new units are the earlier 317s and 455s, the 141s preceding that date.

The last new units built in blue and grey would have been in 1986 as Network SouthEast wasnt launched until June 1986. Provincial, and their liveries, emerged in 1984. The 318s were built in SPT livery, the 150s in Provincial, the later 317s and 455s in NSE.

The 141s were mostly built in WYPTE green and buttermilk and were complete by 1984 anyway; the 142s from 1985 wore Provincial and regional/PTE variants.

Can't think of any other units which were being built around that time. Mk 3s were still being built of course, but would have emerged in Intercity Executive livery from some time in 1984.

Because NSE livery wasn't launched until 1986 then there will still have been 317s and 455s being built in blue and grey up to 1986.


(Corrected as per the below!)

 

[Beebman]

In 1993 somewhere between Preston and Liverpool I can remember seeing a Class 31 on a short rake of early Mk2s which were all in blue and grey which I thought was unusual as all the other rakes on NW services were in RR colours. I can't find a photo but I have found one from September 1993 of a 37421 hauling a Bristol-Weymouth service with a rake of RR Mk2s which includes one in blue and grey:

https://www.alamy.com/stock-image-3...rvice-near-bincombe-tunnel-1st-169671863.html

 

[eastwestdivide]

For example older units (EPBs, HAPs) were still using BR Blue as late as 1983, possibly into 1984, well after blue and grey was introduced (late 60s, I think)

The all-blue was the standard for suburban units long after blue/grey came in for “mainline” stock, EPBs being repainted in all-blue until around 1980-odd. Blood and custardchas a list of paint dates here:

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/sR-4epb.html

which has 1980 as the earliest blue/grey repaint for the SR-style 4-EPBs.

 

[43096]

The last new units built in blue and grey would have been in 1986 as Network SouthEast wasnt launched until June 1986. Provincial, and their liveries, emerged in 1984. The 318s were built in SPT livery, the 150s in Provincial, the later 317s and 455s in NSE.

I think all the 455s were delivered in blue/grey. Can't find photo evidence of 5920, but certainly 5918 carried blue/grey.

Mk 3s were still being built of course, but would have emerged in Intercity Executive livery from some time in 1984.

That's right; the 1984 built HST trailer batch switched to Executive part way through the build. The 1985/6 batch of FOs and BFOs for the West Coast were all in Executive, obviously.

 

[Helvellyn]

Can't think of any other units which were being built around that time. Mk 3s were still being built of course, but would have emerged in Intercity Executive livery from some time in 1984.

The Mark 3A Sleepers were all built in blue/grey, and that up until 1984. The Mark 3B FOs (11064-11101) were delivered in Executive colours.

BR Blue disappeared from new build locomotives sooner - latter build 56s were delivered in the Revised Large Logo livery, whilst all the 58s were delivered in original Railfreight livery.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think all the 455s were delivered in blue/grey. Can't find photo evidence of 5920, but certainly 5918 carried blue/grey.

And lo and behold, I present 455 920 in blue and grey...

 

[Irascible]

The last use of BR Green was 3CIG 1498 Farringford and Blue/Grey was 1497 Freshwater, for the Lymington branch, both withdrawn 2010

Although I suspect that green was a repaint.. there were a couple ( maybe just the one, was a little sure it was more ) diesels that made it into the 80s still in green. Don't know for sure about maroon coaching stock.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

In which case 421497 wasn’t the last repaint into BR BG, that accolade would surely go down to the LNER farewell tour HST, bear in mind these would all be “heritage” repaints. If we are looking at as built then as mentioned above it will likely be a toss-up between 317, 455 and LHCS mk3 stock in the mid 1980s, so what was built after 455920?

 

[Taunton]

Although I suspect that green was a repaint.. there were a couple ( maybe just the one, was a little sure it was more ) diesels that made it into the 80s still in green. Don't know for sure about maroon coaching stock.

Last maroon has been discussed here before; there was an excursion/relief set of Mk1 based at Derby which seems to have lasted until 1972 and was felt to be the final one. I saw a comparable maroon set being used out of Glasgow Queen Street on a football excursion the year before, in 1971.

 

[Magdalia]

I'm pretty sure that the latest new units are the earlier 317s and 455s, the 141s preceding that date.

If we are looking at as built then as mentioned above it will likely be a toss-up between 317, 455 and LHCS mk3 stock in the mid 1980s, so what was built after 455920?

317364 and 317365 were delivered in September 1986 in blue and grey livery.

glc - 317364 finsbury park JL

Explore johnmightycat1's 100477 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

19860927_003: 317365 & 317354 at Hitchin

Explore Six Bells Junction's 59241 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Last maroon has been discussed here before; there was an excursion/relief set of Mk1 based at Derby which seems to have lasted until 1972 and was felt to be the final one.

The Derby maroon set was still running in summer 1973.

[The Southern Region] were then allowed to use green again for hauled stock, and Wham! - the BR livery disappeared in notably short order.

A few MarkII FKs were delivered in Southern green.

 

[nw1]

I think all the 455s were delivered in blue/grey. Can't find photo evidence of 5920, but certainly 5918 carried blue/grey.

Yes, that's my recollection too. ISTR all three batches of 455s were blue/grey from the outset. I think the 455/9s were introduced pre-NSE.

Although I suspect that green was a repaint.. there were a couple ( maybe just the one, was a little sure it was more ) diesels that made it into the 80s still in green. Don't know for sure about maroon coaching stock.

Yes, I wouldn't count the Lymington CIGs as they were essentially "heritage" repaints and would have, as 4CIGs, presumably gone through blue/grey, NSE and SWT liveries before reforming as 3CIGs for the branch.

Same would go for 4VEP 3417.

And lo and behold, I present 455 920 in blue and grey...

The combination of blue/grey unit and red lamp-posts must significantly narrow down the time frame for that photo. I'd guess late 1986 or 1987...

The all-blue was the standard for suburban units long after blue/grey came in for “mainline” stock, EPBs being repainted in all-blue until around 1980-odd. Blood and custardchas a list of paint dates here:

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/sR-4epb.html

which has 1980 as the earliest blue/grey repaint for the SR-style 4-EPBs.

Interesting. I remember about half the SWD EPBs (5101-5132, I think) were blue, and the rest blue/grey, by 1983.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I think all the 455s were delivered in blue/grey. Can't find photo evidence of 5920, but certainly 5918 carried blue/grey.

That's right; the 1984 built HST trailer batch switched to Executive part way through the build. The 1985/6 batch of FOs and BFOs for the West Coast were all in Executive, obviously.

You're right. 455s complete in 1985, NSE not introduced until 1986. So it's the later 317s alone!

 

[DanNCL]

Network South East survived until 2007 on 465s. Regional Railways survived until 2008 on 153s. Railfreight Distribution still survives today on 60s, 90s and 92s.

 

[Taunton]

A few MarkII FKs were delivered in Southern green.

These were a large batch of the original Mk2, vacuum braked FKs, which went to the Southern Region for Southampton ocean liner boat trains. They were the only Mk2 vehicles the Southern ever had. Dual heat, they would have been steam hauled for a few years.

Regarding losing blue/grey, I seem to recall that the Merseyrail electric units were the last to choose a different livery, and stayed with this as standard well after everything else.

Always amusing to note liveries that lasted right through a replacement one, and into the time of a third one. A handful of diesel shunters were still black right through the green era, and into the blue times. The WR Warships which were initially all delivered green began to be repainted maroon as standard in the early 1960s, then the blue era came along, and for a while there seemed to be equal numbers of all three. There are some photographs around of the three Warship liveries together.

 

[Royston Vasey]

a

317364 and 317365 were delivered in September 1986 in blue and grey livery.

glc - 317364 finsbury park JL

Explore johnmightycat1's 100477 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

19860927_003: 317365 & 317354 at Hitchin

Explore Six Bells Junction's 59241 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

I think we have our definitive answer then! I guess York had the tins of toothpaste paint on back order!

 

[Magdalia]

Network South East survived until 2007 on 465s.

I should have remembered that! And on class 365s too.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Network South East survived until 2007 on 465s. Regional Railways survived until 2008 on 153s. Railfreight Distribution still survives today on 60s, 90s and 92s.

And 2007 on 365s until vinyled by FCC. Apparently the paint was still under warranty!

I should have remembered that! And on class 365s too.

Edit: late May 2007

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrc31176/7123756905/ (not sure how to post with the preview as others have done)

365538 and 365523 approaching Royston working 1715 Kings Cross to Cambridge on 14 May 2007. 365538 was the last class 365 in NSE livery, and this rather gloomy backlit shot was my last picture of it, although it soldiered on for another week before going in for the FCC vinyls.

Credit to the original photographer Mister C, who is not me.

 

[Magdalia]

Always amusing to note liveries that lasted right through a replacement one, and into the time of a third one.

317649/650/651 did this, retaining the original WAGN livery until late 2010/early 2011, going plain white with blue doors without carrying either of the ONE and NXEA liveries.

 

[Strathclyder]

Strathclyde Orange & Black managed to linger on the national network right up until late November 2006 (2 years and a month into the First ScotRail franchise), when the last Class 314 to carry it (314202) was sent to Glasgow Works for a repaint into Carmine/Cream. By that point, some members of the class had been wearing a modified version of the latter livery, with full-cream passenger doors and 'SPT Rail' logos, for well over 2 years (linked image copyright of Flickr's Ewan). Given their numbers (16), the 314s seemed to resist the Carmine/Cream paint-brush the longest.

FScR 314202, Glasgow Central

First ScotRail 314202 in SPT orange and black stands at Glasgow Central

www.flickr.com

The last new units built in blue and grey would have been in 1986 as Network SouthEast wasnt launched until June 1986. Provincial, and their liveries, emerged in 1984. The 318s were built in SPT livery, the 150s in Provincial, the later 317s and 455s in NSE.

Strathclyde Orange & Black first appeared on a Class 303 (303008 to be precise) in 1983 IIRC (September that year seems to ring a distant bell). But yes, the 318s were built in Orange/Black livery, followed by the last 14 Class 156s (501-514; these were funded by Strathclyde PTE) in 1989 and the Class 320/3s in 1990.

 

[Irascible]

Last maroon has been discussed here before; there was an excursion/relief set of Mk1 based at Derby which seems to have lasted until 1972 and was felt to be the final one. I saw a comparable maroon set being used out of Glasgow Queen Street on a football excursion the year before, in 1971.

I'll go look for the thread, but does that count parcel stock? although they always seemed to be painted in soot/dirt/random particulates rather than any particular colour...

 

[Beebman]

I'll go look for the thread, but does that count parcel stock? although they always seemed to be painted in soot/dirt/random particulates rather than any particular colour...

In around 1974/75 at Reading I saw an ex-SR CCT in allover 'filth' livery which had off-white Gill Sans numbers just about visible so I assume it was still in green. On the subject of SR CCTs I have a Bradford Barton book 'BR General Parcels Rolling Stock: A Pictorial Survey' by David Larkin that shows one in 1969 at Hemel Hempstead which according to the photo caption is still in BR Crimson livery. Unfortunately all the photos are in black and white which is a shame because there's also a pic of an ex-SR bogie Scenery Van at Crewe in 1968 and one of an ex-GWR Siphon G at York in the same year which are both said to be in Crimson. (There's also a photo of an ex-LNWR Full Brake at Stirling in 1954 which is still in LMS Maroon.)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I can answer the last part of the last question, none of the Sprinter classes ever carried blue & grey, though some pacers did, the prototype class 140 and some (although I don't think many) 141s.

The first few 141s were delivered in a variant of blue/grey, though the shade of blue was Barrow Corporation blue rather than BR. None of them entered traffic in this livery, all were repainted into WYPTE green/cream before entering traffic (apart from 141001, which didn't actually enter traffic until the later refurbishment- instead it sat at Neville Hill as a source of spares for the rest of the fleet).

 

[Ashley Hill]

According to their website 40106 was painted blue at Crewe in 1978 but immediately repainted green again before re-entering traffic. Until I looked at that site I was unaware of its very brief works only blue livery.

 

[ashkeba]

Some 350s were delivered in a modern blue&grey livery in 2005. One unit is pictured in a similar livery on wikimedia commons in 2014.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Some 350s were delivered in a modern blue&grey livery in 2005. One unit is pictured in a similar livery on wikimedia commons in 2014.

That was a neutral livery specified due the the units initially being shared IIRC. Not related to the earlier BR liveries, though it is vaguely reminiscent of the inverted blue/grey that the prototype HST set wore.