Late Platform Numbers at Liverpool Street

[F Great Eastern]

Has there been a conscious decision by Network Rail to stop advertising platforms as early as they used to at Liverpool Street to try and get people to spend more money in the retail outlets?

Quite a bit over the past few weeks I've seen trains sitting at platforms for ages but only having the platform numbers being put up 5-6 minutes or so in advance, with some Enfield Town services not even going up even less than that.

I know thankfully there are nowhere near as many intercity or long distance services at Liverpool Street as there are at Euston, but did someone really think it was an idea that was worth copying?

Also on the subject of the Liverpool Street main board, removing the East and West divide is also a backward step and the new Liverpool Street logo instead of Welcome to Liverpool Street looks really naff and like the 80s have called.

 

[kacper]

Liverpool St really has gotten worse recently

 

[800301]

It seems to be a network rail thing, happens at Paddington all the time, even when the train has been in the platform for 45mins, they would rather a stampede 5 mins before departure which often results in people missing the train as they automatically get taken off the departure boards 2 mins before departure time, so 3 mins of advertising a service, it does seem to be a lot worse on weekends normally resulting in a late departure…

I think it’s quite poor really

 

[F Great Eastern]

I know it's been something that has happened at other stations for quite a while. but it seems a fairly new thing at Liverpool Street.

The latest examples I have seen is a Southend service going up 5 minutes before departure and an Ipswich stopper going up 6 minutes before departure. The worst I have seen is an Enfield Town service less than 4 minutes before departure. One day last week I was in the station at just before 13:55 and of the next 6 trains to go out only 2 had platforms,.

It also promotes uneven capacity spread over a train on commuter services as well as because of the short time between announcement and departure. You have a situation where even more people are bundling onto the first 5 carriages of a 10 car 720 which cannot then regulate because of the lack of corridor connections. I've seen even more out of balance capacity spread on the PIS than normal lately due to this.

 

[MikeWM]

I know it's been something that has happened at other stations for quite a while. but it seems a fairly new thing at Liverpool Street.

It does, I noticed this on Saturday and thought it was unusual. And, as you say, unhelpful too.

Agree with the new sign above the main departure board too, ugh. I'm less concerned about removing the west-east separation as that was pretty anachronistic compared to pretty much everywhere else on the network, and could well confuse people unfamiliar with the station. Although for those of us used to it, the change will take a little getting used to!

 

[Sleepy]

The removal of the east/west split on departure boards was at passenger's request apparently.

 

[F Great Eastern]

The removal of the east/west split on departure boards was at passenger's request apparently.

The Irony being that the original justification of splitting it a few years ago was that Greater Anglia said customers preferred it as it made it easier to find their train!

 

[Trainbike46]

that's sad to hear - why are stations emulating Euston at all?

more importantly, why suppress platforms for commuter services at all?

I used to like the east/west split of the departure board, it was much quicker to find your train as there were fewer of them to look between

 

[306024]

Hate to upset a good conspiracy theory but there has been no change in policy. It's in everyone's interest to keep the concourse as clear as possible by using the train as the waiting room. Now of course there are many reasons why a train may not be advertised, but to get people to spend more money in shops isn't one of them.

 

[londonmidland]

I think the CIS is managed by Greater Anglia at Liverpool Street, despite it being a Network Rail managed station.

G.A have also decided to silence announcements because they were ‘too noisy’, so now you constantly have to keep looking at the screens to see if it has been advertised.

Some ridiculous decisions have been made here.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Hate to upset a good conspiracy theory but there has been no change in policy. It's in everyone's interest to keep the concourse as clear as possible by using the train as the waiting room. Now of course there are many reasons why a train may not be advertised, but to get people to spend more money in shops isn't one of them.

I have no idea whether there has been an official change in policy or not, but I can tell you for a fact recently platforms have been announced much later than they had been earlier in the summer and that is something that has been noticed both by myself and other people on this board as well as people I work with who noticed the same. The bit about shops was just an assumption, I never said it was a fact, but generally that is the incentive for things like this in most forms of transport.

In addition as London Midland has quite rightly pointed out, it's not just the fact that platforms are late now, but there are practically zero announcements at Liverpool Street these days as well. When the loadings start to increase following the end of the summer holidays, that is only going to promote even more of the unbalanced loadings I'm seeing on 2x720 consists, as more people than ever now are boarding the rear carriages because of fact these late platforms are causing more than normal congestion at barriers as large crowds of people have 5-6 minutes to notice the platform number get to the front of the queue and then board the train, knowing that in reality doors close up to a minute before departure. So people simply don't risk walking to the second unit when the times are that tight. And we all know that passengers already are lazy and don't like to walk to the second unit anyway, and this just promotes that even more.

The Norwich services are still getting advertised with plenty of notice mind and Stansted Express seems to be advertised a bit less in advance than it used to, but still miles better than the rest of the GA Commuter services and the London Overground Enfield services (which are probably the worst offenders).

 

[Class 170101]

G.A have also decided to silence announcements because they were ‘too noisy’, so now you constantly have to keep looking at the screens to see if it has been advertised.

Is this actually legal? Surely blind and partially sighted people need those announcements.

 

[BJames]

I liked the east-west split on the boards. Seems to be split opinion on here and through customer feedback, and yes it's different to how other stations do it so I'll get used to it returning back to the way it used to be.

The point above about Enfield Town services - I am a regular user of Liverpool Street and specifically Enfield services are practically the only train I tend to take out of Liverpool Street, as I live at the end of this line. I haven't noticed a huge issue myself with Enfield departures recently (not saying it's not been happening but just haven't noticed myself) - it does happen sometimes that the platform is displayed a little late due to a few mins late running on the inbound Chingford working, which forms the Enfield service for most of the day.

Enfield services, along with other LO routes from here, are usually advertised for boarding as the train was arriving at Liverpool Street on its inbound working (sometimes before it has entered the platform). Usually Chingford services arrive at xx:22/xx:52 in preparation for the xx:00/xx:30 departure off-peak. With that approx. 8 minute turnaround time, there's not a huge flexibility in how in advance or close to departure the platform can be advertised, but I always found the inverse, that in fact it's not uncommon for the platform to be advertised before the train has arrived in the platform on the inbound, I assumed to get people off the concourse early.

I wondered when reading your OP, if there is a notable delay to advertising the train, whether they're now delaying it slightly to allow some or most of the crowd off the platform before we board? It can sometimes feel like fighting with the crowd particularly at peak times.

Providing there's no disruption, I always go through to the platform before it's displayed anyway if I'm there early, and find a large number of my regular fellow commuters doing the same. There would be no ultimate benefit in policy change here that I can see, as mentioned by @306024

 

[londonmidland]

Is this actually legal? Surely blind and partially sighted people need those announcements.

Network Rail got away with doing this at Birmingham New Street, claiming it was to reduce noise pollution, with pax having the opportunity to use the assistance travel facility, if needed. Greater Anglia also used the same excuse, saying that there’s staff nearby should anyone need assistance.

I have a feeling there’s some high up managers in charge here, bending the rules. I recall reading up that if an automated announcement system is installed, then it should be used.

 

[DatGuy135]

Not liv street, but I noticed this at London Victoria yesterday. When I arrived to the station 20 mins before departure my train was already in platform with the doors released ready to board. But the train wasnt annnounced or put up on the screens until 5 mins before departure.

 

[Sunil_P]

Is Real Time Trains of any help? Usually they get it right, though occasionally they don't!

 

[BJames]

Is Real Time Trains of any help? Usually they get it right, though occasionally they don't!

It's pretty good at Liverpool Street in normal working and I use it regularly. Although, as with everywhere it's thrown awry when there's disruption, which is when I pivot to Open Train Times to check where the inbound working is about to be platformed, so I can position myself in the right area before it's opened to the masses. For London Overground in particular, it's important to be aware in disruption that it's not necessarily going to be the regular platforming - a service which leaves from P1 every day can be pushed into P8 or (rarely, but has happened) P11 onwards which is accessed by a completely different gateline.

 

[leytongabriel]

Another vote for East -West split on the indicator board. Too much scanning across to do at present with no grouping.

 

[londonmidland]

I still think it’s ridiculous all announcements have been silenced here.

How is a visually impaired person supposed to read the small text on the very high mounted PIS screens?

I’ve been caught out a few times as I’ve looked at the screens with no platform advertised, I look a few minutes later and it’s silently been added.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Is Real Time Trains of any help? Usually they get it right, though occasionally they don't!

Yes. The barriers and staff will let you through and board a train that you can be 95% sure is the correct train, even before it is on the boards. The Cambridge, Stansted and Norwich departures are almost always easy to detect anyway, but with confirmation from RTT I almost always board at LST before the platform is advertised.

The Cambridge and Stansted services have fairly short turnarounds, often less than ten minutes, and this might be part of the reason to delay the platform displaying, allowing passengers to disgorge before the next lot try to board.

But you can use RTT to be ready for it pulling in most of the time. You won't be stopped. And in the event of a late platform alteration, you can just walk to other platforms without passing back through the gateline anyway.

I wonder if the Seven Sisters diversion was causing shorter turnarounds in recent weeks and therefore later platform advertisement?

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Whenever I go to Liverpool Street, the trains are always advertised as soon as they're signalled into the platform

 

[Flying Snail]

I’ve been caught out a few times as I’ve looked at the screens with no platform advertised, I look a few minutes later and it’s silently been added.

Maybe they should play a fake solari board noise every time the destination screens update.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Whenever I go to Liverpool Street, the trains are always advertised as soon as they're signalled into the platform

That's how it used to be for me until fairly recently, but again last I'm seeing 720s sit in platforms for fairly significant amounts of time and then announced on the boards not far over 5 minutes before departure and on Friday at one point there were just two trains with platforms on the boards at Liverpool Street, which is unheard of.

I get the fact that we can use Real Time Trains and I will do that occasionally, but we shouldn't need to pull a third party app out to do this, and this is not something your average passenger will know about. They should be providing prompt platform information and proper announcement for blind or partially sighted people, there is no excuse for that.

Don't worry though, because Greater Anglia and Network Rail have the answer, apparently they are aware at the congestion at barriers during peak times so they are knocking down the retail units at the front of the platforms and installing more ticket gates to alleviate it. I can't say I'm a huge fan of it because occasionally on tight connections it's been a case of being able to go to one of these retail units or not go to any so I would have tried to leave at least one or two there.

Whilst the Liverpool Street concourse redesign scheme has not been designed overnight, it's hard not to be cynical about the fact they issue a press release to the media a few days ago saying they were aware of congestion at barriers at peak times that they are now addressing that by these extra gates when this problem is one that has been made significantly worse in recent weeks and months by the removal of announcements and late platforming. It's almost like they are trying to create some proof ahead of time and justification for the steps they are taking.

 

[jamie_r]

Whilst the Liverpool Street concourse redesign scheme has not been designed overnight, it's hard not to be cynical about the fact they issue a press release to the media a few days ago saying they were aware of congestion at barriers at peak times that they are now addressing that by these extra gates when this problem is one that has been made significantly worse in recent weeks and months by the removal of announcements and late platforming. It's almost like they are trying to create some proof ahead of time and justification for the steps they are taking.

Not very often you get someone complaining that there aren’t enough retail units!

I think it’s quite strange to suggest that they‘re making up the idea that there is congestion at the barriers, and that delaying when platforms are revealed is part of some conspiracy to justify the changes. As a regular commuter into Liverpool Street, I am often held up for a good few minutes trying to get off the platform upon arrival into the station as there aren’t enough barriers for everyone to get through.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Not very often you get someone complaining that there aren’t enough retail units!

I think it’s quite strange to suggest that they‘re making up the idea that there is congestion at the barriers, and that delaying when platforms are revealed is part of some conspiracy to justify the changes. As a regular commuter into Liverpool Street, I am often held up for a good few minutes trying to get off the platform upon arrival into the station as there aren’t enough barriers for everyone to get through.

I'm not saying that there isn't congestion at barriers, what I am saying is that in recent weeks it has been made much worse by late platforms on the screens and the silencing of audio announcements and that problem is likely to only get worse still when the kids go back to school.

Also I'm not saying there are not enough retail outlets either, personally I try and avoid the ones adjacent to the platform anyway as there are better ones in the area but what those units do have going for them is when you are changing trains at Liverpool Street where fairly short connections are not uncommon, they allow you to quickly grab something when otherwise you might not be able to.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

I'm not saying that there isn't congestion at barriers, what I am saying is that in recent weeks it has been made much worse by late platforms on the screens and the silencing of audio announcements and that problem is likely to only get worse still when the kids go back to school.

Also I'm not saying there are not enough retail outlets either, personally I try and avoid the ones adjacent to the platform anyway as there are better ones in the area but what those units do have going for them is when you are changing trains at Liverpool Street where fairly short connections are not uncommon, they allow you to quickly grab something when otherwise you might not be able to.

I've never heard an audio announcement at Liverpool Street and I first went two years ago and go every few months

 

[Wolfie]

Is this actually legal? Surely blind and partially sighted people need those announcements.

Absolutely. Perhaps a complaint to the Equality Commission is in order.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I've never heard an audio announcement at Liverpool Street and I first went two years ago and go every few months

Must have been in a different Liverpool Street to me then.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Must have been in a different Liverpool Street to me then.

I swear the announcements weren't working for over a year though

 

[londonmidland]

I swear the announcements weren't working for over a year though

The announcements have been broken for well over a year. They were constantly being cut off mid-sentence, as there was a fault with the system. They briefly switched over to a TTS system, but then swapped back to the legacy, but faulty, Wordline system.

Greater Anglia have made a right mess of it all and have shown nothing but ignorance as they have been burying their heads in the sand, despite several complaints about it being broken. It wouldn't surprise me if G.A silenced the system because it was broken, rather than actually addressing the system and fixing it.

Absolutely. Perhaps a complaint to the Equality Commission is in order.

Unfortunately Network Rail have gotten away with this at Birmingham New Street. Saying that it was too noisy and that they wanted to cut down on noise pollution, so apparently silencing all non-live announcements was the answer... Should you need any sort of assistance, then you'll have to find a member of staff to speak to, is NR's answer.