LMS wagon number plate

[gwr2818]

Hello,
I have recently come across this LMS 12 ton wagon number plate, number 404348, I was wondering if anyone could name the type of wagon that carried it, or had any pictures of the wagon in question?
Thank you.

 

[Gloster]

An unfitted 12 Ton Wood-bodied High Open with steel underframe and 10’ wheelbase. It was built at Derby in 1936 to Diagram 1892, lot 918.

 

[gwr2818]

An unfitted 12 Ton Wood-bodied High Open with steel underframe and 10’ wheelbase. It was built at Derby in 1936 to Diagram 1892, lot 918.

Absolutely brilliant, thanks very much.

 

[randyrippley]

this appears to be a drawing of the design

Wagons: LMS D1892 Open Wagon Drawing

Doug Hewson Drawing showing LMS D1892 Open Wagon. This drawing features in Doug Hewson's Constructing Wagons Book:- Drawing number 2 Size of drawing is approx 129cm x 84cm

steamworkshopstores.com

https://steamworkshopstores.com/cdn/shop/products/Drawing2-LMSD1892OpenWagon_1024x1024.jpg?v=1654617450

 

[gwr2818]

this appears to be a drawing of the design

Wagons: LMS D1892 Open Wagon Drawing

Doug Hewson Drawing showing LMS D1892 Open Wagon. This drawing features in Doug Hewson's Constructing Wagons Book:- Drawing number 2 Size of drawing is approx 129cm x 84cm

steamworkshopstores.com

https://steamworkshopstores.com/cdn/shop/products/Drawing2-LMSD1892OpenWagon_1024x1024.jpg?v=1654617450

That's great, thank you.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Can recommend a book 'The LMS wagon', by R.J. Essery and K.R. Morgan, David & Charles/1977 if you can find a copy. No actual photos of a Dia 1892/lot 918 wagon, but there is a photo of a one off very similar wagon, albeit a fitted version, to Dia 1892/lot 810, on page 35. Just for info there were 750 wagons built in the range of your w/plate (lot 918), 404000 - 404749.

 

[gwr2818]

Can recommend a book 'The LMS wagon', by R.J. Essery and K.R. Morgan, David & Charles/1977 if you can find a copy. No actual photos of a Dia 1892/lot 918 wagon, but there is a photo of a one off very similar wagon, albeit a fitted version, to Dia 1892/lot 810, on page 35. Just for info there were 750 wagons built in the range of your w/plate (lot 918), 404000 - 404749.

Thanks for the information, I will check that book out.

 

[furnessvale]

A very long time ago as a junior railway civil engineer, I once loaded out a couple of tons of wagon number plates for scrap! I wish I had kept a few!

 

[WesternLancer]

A very long time ago as a junior railway civil engineer, I once loaded out a couple of tons of wagon number plates for scrap! I wish I had kept a few!

That sounds like a lot of wagon plates to make that weight!

 

[furnessvale]

That sounds like a lot of wagon plates to make that weight!

Correct. Two reasonable size piles at a location where they had been scrapping hundreds of wooden bodied wagons, but for some reason they left the number plates behind.

 

[WesternLancer]

Correct. Two reasonable size piles at a location where they had been scrapping hundreds of wooden bodied wagons, but for some reason they left the number plates behind.

Thanks - interesting to wonder why - when presumably all the other metal components (wagon chassis etc) must have gone into the scrap furnaces. You wouldn't think they would even take the time to remove the number plates from whatever they were attached to.

Perhaps a decision only known to those on site at the time who made the decision!

 

[AndrewE]

Thanks - interesting to wonder why - when presumably all the other metal components (wagon chassis etc) must have gone into the scrap furnaces. You wouldn't think they would even take the time to remove the number plates from whatever they were attached to.

Perhaps a decision only known to those on site at the time who made the decision!

Maybe the wrought iron and/or steel attracted a better price at the time than the cast iron number plates? Or the company could re-use cast iron internally but not the other stuff?

Or maybe the numbers / plates might have been for use again on supposedly not-new wagons? Apparently quite a few steam locos were not technically scrapped, but a few components were built into otherwise-new locos because of some accounting rule (aka fiddle!)

 

[WesternLancer]

Maybe the wrought iron and/or steel attracted a better price at the time than the cast iron number plates? Or the company could re-use cast iron internally but not the other stuff?

Or maybe the numbers / plates might have been for use again on supposedly not-new wagons? Apparently quite a few steam locos were not technically scrapped, but a few components were built into otherwise-new locos because of some accounting rule (aka fiddle!)

Thanks, good point esp ref the price / value of the different sort of scrap.

I have no idea if wagon plates might ever have been re-used, or saved for possible re-use.

 

[Gloster]

Could they have been kept back as some sort of proof of how many or which wagons were scrapped? Or were they just a way of simplifying things for whoever had to submit the records of which wagons had been cut: no need to try and decipher a series of badly written pencil notes, just read the original plate?

 

[AndrewE]

Could they have been kept back as some sort of proof of how many or which wagons were scrapped?

Equally likely... Did the wagons have plates both sides? if so, count them and divide by 2? or keep 1 off each wagon? (or keep rather more and hope the auditors never made a detailed check of the numbers?)

 

[randyrippley]

Cast iron would degrade recycled wrought-iron or steel.
Different impurity profiles