LNER booking site - 'This train is fully reserved. You may have to stand for part or all of your journey.'

[scarby]

I have been booking some tickets through LNER and the above message comes up repeatedly during the booking process when booking tickets with other operators who do not offer seat reservations. For example, the 11.17 to 12.13 from Nottingham to Sheffield with Northern.

Seats: No seat reservation available
This train is fully reserved. You may have to stand for part or all of your journey.

This information is clearly wrong - these trains aren't fully reserved at all. However, to a traveller without this knowledge it gives the clear impression that they were not able to reserve seats because the train is fully booked and they may have to stand, which is nonsense.

 

[Haywain]

However, to a traveller without this knowledge it gives the clear impression that they were not able to reserve seats because the train is fully booked and they may have to stand, which is nonsense.

It's not nonsense because they can't reserve a seat and, if the train is busy, they may have to stand. However, when I look at the same journey on the LNER website and select an Advance ticket, this is the message on the preferences page:

 

[The exile]

I have been booking some tickets through LNER and the above message comes up repeatedly during the booking process when booking tickets with other operators who do not offer seat reservations. For example, the 11.17 to 12.13 from Nottingham to Sheffield with Northern.

Seats: No seat reservation available
This train is fully reserved. You may have to stand for part or all of your journey.

This information is clearly wrong - these trains aren't fully reserved at all. However, to a traveller without this knowledge it gives the clear impression that they were not able to reserve seats because the train is fully booked and they may have to stand, which is nonsense.

The bit that should come out is “This train is fully reserved”. The rest is perfectly accurate though could probably be phrased a little less dramatically.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The bit that should come out is “This train is fully reserved”. The rest is perfectly accurate though could probably be phrased a little less dramatically.

It's a typical case of LNER's site only being designed to give information about their own services. It would be better if they said "We cannot reserve you a seat on this train" rather than "This train is fully reserved". Which isn't even true of their own services as there are a few unreserved seats (about half a coach I think?)

 

[Haywain]

The bit that should come out is “This train is fully reserved”.

If that is actually wrong it should come out but Northern use counted place reservations so, if none were available, it wasn't wrong.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2025 ==

It's a typical case of LNER's site only being designed to give information about their own services.

I disagree, it's a problem with counted place reservations and how they are used. We don't know what the OP was looking at, but if it was a walk-up ticket then Northern shouldn't be using reservations for those tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If that is actually wrong it should come out but Northern use counted place reservations so, if none were available, it wasn't wrong.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2025 ==


I disagree, it's a problem with counted place reservations and how they are used. We don't know what the OP was looking at, but if it was a walk-up ticket then Northern shouldn't be using reservations for those tickets.

It is incorrect to state that a train is fully reserved just because a counted place is issued. "Fully reserved" means "there are no unreserved seats". That is not the case for any UK train service bar the Caledonian Sleeper on a day when it's full; all LNER services have unreserved seating.

Thus if the industry considers this term means something different it should pack it in. To the layman it doesn't mean "all reservable seats are reserved", it means "all seats on the train are reserved".

 

[Wallsendmag]

Does fully reserved not mean all reservable seats are taken? Definately two ways to read that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does fully reserved not mean all reservable seats are taken? Definately two ways to read that.

If I was told a train was fully reserved that says to me that there are no unreserved seats on it. I bet most members of the public would agree.

If you mean "all reservable seats are taken but there are some unreserved ones which may be the subject of a bunfight" then say that (in a more diplomatic way).

 

[Haywain]

It is incorrect to state that a train is fully reserved just because a counted place is issued.

But there is no means to distinguish between a counted place and an actual seat. If counted places were being used correctly in the OP's case the problem would not arise. I'm not getting into a discussion about what LNER does for its own trains because it isn't relevant to this specific case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But there is no means to distinguish between a counted place and an actual seat. If counted places were being used correctly in the OP's case the problem would not arise. I'm not getting into a discussion about what LNER does for its own trains because it isn't relevant to this specific case.

Nonetheless it would be possible to reword the message into something more sensible that would actually be accurate all of the time.

"It was not possible to reserve a specific seat for you on this train. Please take any available seat in the class on your ticket, but please note that you may have to stand for part or all of the journey" is a better wording, for example. Indeed that would apply for any situation where a seat wasn't reserved and need not distinguish between counted place and none at all.

 

[Haywain]

Nonetheless it would be possible to reword the message into something more sensible that would actually be accurate all of the time.

"It was not possible to reserve a specific seat for you on this train. Please take any available seat in the class on your ticket, but please note that you may have to stand for part or all of the journey" is a better wording, for example. Indeed that would apply for any situation where a seat wasn't reserved and need not distinguish between counted place and none at all.

Like the message in post #2?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Like the message in post #2?

Yes, that one makes more sense.

 

[talldave]

Does fully reserved not mean all reservable seats are taken? Definately two ways to read that.

Yes, if the train has only reservable seats.

It a restaurant says they're fully reserved on Thursday night it means there's no space.

It's rail industry "blindness" to think that customers understand a train being fully reserved means there are seats available because class X trains have so many seats unreserved on TOC Y. Most of us use English as presented not caveated with a "but what we actually meant was..." hidden explanation!!

This falls into the same gobbledegook bucket as "doors will open automatically at the next station" when actually it's THIS station.

Write it in plain English, Say It, Sorted.

 

[TUC]

I have been booking some tickets through LNER and the above message comes up repeatedly during the booking process when booking tickets with other operators who do not offer seat reservations. For example, the 11.17 to 12.13 from Nottingham to Sheffield with Northern.

Seats: No seat reservation available
This train is fully reserved. You may have to stand for part or all of your journey.

This information is clearly wrong - these trains aren't fully reserved at all. However, to a traveller without this knowledge it gives the clear impression that they were not able to reserve seats because the train is fully booked and they may have to stand, which is nonsense.

'May' isn't the same as 'will'. That should be obvious to those reading it.

Where I do agree is that, time after time, the rail industry seems curiously poor at wording information in a clear, accurate manner. Why is that?

 

[H F Stephens]

For the benefit of those perhaps struggling to comprehend, herewith a screenshot from the LNER website as an example of the point which I suspect the OP seeks to make:



The text (specifically relevant warning shown in red) reads:

Journey 1£28.80​

Glossop to Blackpool North
1 Adult
Edit journeyRemovePrice detail

Remove this journey?​

NoYes

Out​

Glossop to Blackpool North
Tue 10 Jun 2025
08:22 >to 10:51 (2h 29m)


Ticket type: Off-Peak Single
Route: Valid only for travel via (changing trains or passing through) Manchester.
Changes: 1
Seats: No seat reservation available
This train is fully reserved. You may have to stand for part or all of your journey.

________________

The warning - specifically the first part - would appear to be factually incorrect, and therefore potentially misleading, irrespective of the subsequent supplementary text.

 

[sheff1]

For the benefit of those perhaps struggling to comprehend, herewith a screenshot from the LNER website as an example of the point which I suspect the OP seeks to make:

Journey 1£28.80​

Glossop to Blackpool North
1 Adult
Edit journeyRemovePrice detail

Remove this journey?​

NoYes

Out​

Glossop to Blackpool North
Tue 10 Jun 2025
08:22 >to 10:51 (2h 29m)


Ticket type: Off-Peak Single
Route: Valid only for travel via (changing trains or passing through) Manchester.
Changes: 1
Seats: No seat reservation available
This train is fully reserved. You may have to stand for part or all of your journey.

"This train". Which train are they referring to - the journey involves two different trains ?