LNER ticket issues

[zero]

1. I was on LNER from Doncaster to Kings Cross in 1st class and another passenger had a Grand Central only ticket (the next train from that platform was GC).

The TM said a new ticket would need to be bought and asked the passenger if they wanted standard or 1st class; the passenger chose 1st. But after a long time searching on their device, the TM eventually sold a new standard class ticket at £68.80 with railcard and made some noises about doing them a favour.

I looked on brfares.com and when adding a railcard, the 1st fares show as not available - so I postulate that the TM unsuccessfully tried to offer a railcard 1st fare and failed, hence taking a long time. Why is this the case? I used 16-25 as that's what I assumed the passenger had.

On the LNER app when searching with a railcard, an undiscounted £156.70 LNER only fare is offered. But on brfares.com there is an any permitted anytime single for £116.00. Why doesn't the app offer this?



2. I needed to change my travel plans after 6pm on the day before travel. As I held an advance ticket, I needed to buy a new one. I wasn't yet sure of the new time I needed to travel, but I looked on the app for possibilities. Most trains had no advance tickets left, but there were two remaining.

(The following are example prices.) One train had 1 ticket left at £20 and another was £25 also with very few tickets left. I made a note of the times then checked whether they would suit my plans. This took several hours.

When I was ready, I decided that I was able to get the train which was £20 and fortunately the 1 ticket was still available. I tried to book it, but it would not let me because all the seats had already been reserved - thus it was never really available. In the meantime, the other train had become £35.

If it had not shown me false availability I would have just booked the other train when it was £25 and also not have wasted time checking whether the £20 train times were suitable.

 

[Class800]

1. I was on LNER from Doncaster to Kings Cross in 1st class and another passenger had a Grand Central only ticket (the next train from that platform was GC).

... made some noises about doing them a favour.

If it was the next one from the platform, it's pretty harsh. The TM did not break any rules. But could have shown more discretion - as it is confusing to have them both on the same platform soon after

 

[skyhigh]

If it was the next one from the platform, it's pretty harsh. The TM did not break any rules. But could have shown more discretion - as it is confusing to have them both on the same platform soon after

They normally make it fairly clear at Doncaster that GC only tickets are not valid on LNER services.

Given that GC is an open access operator and LNER gets nil revenue from a GC only ticket - it seems the TM did show discretion in not charging for a full price ticket, as they would have been permitted to.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

16-25 Railcards can't be used to purchase discounted First Class tickets (other than First Class Advance), if I rightly recall.

 

[Class800]

They normally make it fairly clear at Doncaster that GC only tickets are not valid on LNER services.

Given that GC is an open access operator and LNER gets nil revenue from a GC only ticket - it seems the TM did show discretion in not charging for a full price ticket, as they would have been permitted to.

Not enough discretion in my eyes if on the same platform - it's too confusing.

 

[miklcct]

It will not be confusing if the words Grand Central, or GC, is shown alongside the destination on every board, like showing a "route number".

 

[Haywain]

Not enough discretion in my eyes if on the same platform - it's too confusing.

Do you think that GC would show discretion if the error was the other way round? I don’t.

 

[Class800]

Do you think that GC would show discretion if the error was the other way round? I don’t.

No I don't. It's frankly frightening that trains can be on same platform at similar time and the consequences of a minor error are so great. Not everyone is knowledgeable like us

 

[Haywain]

No I don't. It's frankly frightening that trains can be on same platform at similar time and the consequences of a minor error are so great. Not everyone is knowledgeable like us

Unfortunately at a busy station with a limited number of platforms there’s not much can be done about it.

 

[Class800]

Unfortunately at a busy station with a limited number of platforms there’s not much can be done about it.

Apart from everyone agreeing to be sensible and not punish accidental errors...

 

[superalbs]

16-25 Railcards can't be used to purchase discounted First Class tickets (other than First Class Advance), if I rightly recall.

Generally, but on GC and SWR, you can get some First Class walkups.

 

[yorkie]

I have been on GC trains where the staff did show discretion; it very much depends on the staff and the specific circumstances.

In one case I recall the passenger had a ticket which had restriction code GC printed on it; this is a restriction code used by LNER. I think the customer also may have had an itinerary showing the TOC code GR, which is the code for LNER. The trains were just a few minutes apart and both non-stop to London.

This was a while ago; I used to use GC a lot however I avoid GC these days and have only done one journey with them in the last few years.

2. I needed to change my travel plans after 6pm on the day before travel. As I held an advance ticket, I needed to buy a new one. I wasn't yet sure of the new time I needed to travel, but I looked on the app for possibilities. Most trains had no advance tickets left, but there were two remaining.

(The following are example prices.) One train had 1 ticket left at £20 and another was £25 also with very few tickets left. I made a note of the times then checked whether they would suit my plans. This took several hours.

When I was ready, I decided that I was able to get the train which was £20 and fortunately the 1 ticket was still available. I tried to book it, but it would not let me because all the seats had already been reserved - thus it was never really available. In the meantime, the other train had become £35.

If it had not shown me false availability I would have just booked the other train when it was £25 and also not have wasted time checking whether the £20 train times were suitable.

The last tickets/seats may have been taken between the time you searched and the time you came to book. It only takes a moment for someone else to get the last one.

If there is one seat left, you need to act fast. If you leave it hours, you are unlikely to find it is still available.

 

[zero]

The last tickets/seats may have been taken between the time you searched and the time you came to book. It only takes a moment for someone else to get the last one.

If there is one seat left, you need to act fast. If you leave it hours, you are unlikely to find it is still available.

That wasn't the case because I initially searched at (say) 7pm and it showed 1 seat left at £20. Of course I'm aware that someone else could have booked it at any time.

I first tried to book it at 9pm and it still showed 1 seat left, but didn't let me book, so I booked the other train. The next morning it was still showing 1 seat left and trying to proceed with booking (out of curiosity) still resulted in the same error of all seats already being reserved.

Perhaps if someone on a walk-up ticket with a seat reservation cancelled their reservation, the last advance ticket may have become bookable?

 

[yorkie]

That wasn't the case because I initially searched at (say) 7pm and it showed 1 seat left at £20. I first tried to book it at 9pm and it still showed 1 seat left, but didn't let me book (so I booked the other train). The next morning it was still showing 1 seat left and trying to proceed with booking still resulted in the error of all seats being reserved.

Another possibility is that there was one ticket left in the quota, however all seats were reserved. I have seen this happen occasionally.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Generally, but on GC and SWR, you can get some First Class walkups.

Are these essentially still (discounted?) First Class Advance tickets, but purchased immediately ahead of actual travel?

 

[yorkie]

Are these essentially still (discounted?)

They are Railcard discounted, yes

First Class Advance tickets

No, they are walk-up tickets

https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=KGX&dest=DON&rlc=YNG&rte=49&tkt=G1R

​ First Class​ RETURN​	​ OFF-PEAK 1R [GZ] G1R​
From​	LONDON KINGS X​	​	​
To​	DONCASTER​	​	​
Route​	GRAND CTRL ONLY​	​	​
Railcard / Discount​	YNG 16-25 RAILCARD [R1]​

 

[LowLevel]

Apart from everyone agreeing to be sensible and not punish accidental errors...

Your psychic powers are better than mine if you can accurately sift between "accidental errors" and "chancers" - their are plenty of both!

 

[voyagerdude220]

Looking at LNER's website the First Off Peak single is just over £156, so the Train Manager certainly did do the passenger a favour.

I was under the impression that Train Managers aren't supposed to give railcard discounts or offer off peak tickets onboard when ticket offices are open.

 

[LowLevel]

Looking at LNER's website the First Off Peak single is just over £156, so the Train Manager certainly did do the passenger a favour.

I was under the impression that Train Managers aren't supposed to give railcard discounts or offer off peak tickets onboard when ticket offices are open.

If a ticket is held but it is not valid for some reason (usually advances on the wrong train) the cheapest available replacement ticket that is valid should be sold.

 

[yorkie]

Looking at LNER's website the First Off Peak single is just over £156, so the Train Manager certainly did do the passenger a favour.

I was under the impression that Train Managers aren't supposed to give railcard discounts or offer off peak tickets onboard when ticket offices are open.

GNER used to implement this (notwithstanding the caveats mentioned in the post above), and to some extent this was continued into subsequent franchise holders however over the years things have changed and LNER appear to give their staff a lot of discretion.

 

[voyagerdude220]

GNER used to implement this (notwithstanding the caveats mentioned in the post above), and to some extent this was continued into subsequent franchise holders however over the years things have changed and LNER appear to give their staff a lot of discretion.

Ok thanks for that. Do other train companies do the same as LNER? Avanti/Cross Country I'm wondering about.

 

[zero]

Another possibility is that there was one ticket left in the quota, however all seats were reserved. I have seen this happen occasionally.

Exactly, that was my point - why does the system initially pretend that one ticket is left when it is not bookable in practice? As I already said, this misleading availability caused me to waste time and money, though in the future I now know I should proceed one step further to confirm that a ticket is actually bookable.

 

[alistairlees]

Exactly, that was my point - why does the system initially pretend that one ticket is left when it is not bookable in practice? As I already said, this misleading availability caused me to waste time and money, though in the future I now know I should proceed one step further to confirm that a ticket is actually bookable.

The issue here is the old National Reservation System (NRS). An availability query will show all availability, including that for unbookable (for online TIS) places (such as wheelchair spaces). However, as these cannot be booked by online TIS, an error message results. This has been a problem for over 15 years, and you'll commonly see it showing "false availability" on busy days. Totally frustrating for customers, of course!

NRS has actually been replaced by RARS2, but all TIS suppliers are still using an intermediate system to use old style queries (and get old style responses, mimicking NRS) rather than integrating with RARS2's APIs directly. This was a planned step. By the end of this year all TIS should be integrated with RARS2 directly and this false availability issue should have disappeared. Some other benefits for customers will emerge too.

 

[Starmill]

I think that Grand Central have always offered railcard rates on First Class, including the ones where other operators wouldn't allow the discount with that type of railcard. It certainly keeps things simpler that way.

In my opinion, if the customer has arrived in time for the correct train, but didn't actually board the correct train, the fairest outcome for all concerned is to specially authorise a refund on the incorrect ticket, and sell a new correct one. This would have the advantage that "chancers" wouldn't be able to gain any undue financial benefit , and it would be more satisfactory to the operator of the train which the customer actually used. It's also vastly fairer on the customer, because although they are likely to have to pay more than they would if they'd boarded the correct train, there will be no "double counting" of the fare. The retailer of the ticket would need to be permitted to add an administration fee to this refund, but in my view all admin fees should be capped at £5 per transaction, which is a fair level on customers and is sufficient for the administration costs incurred. No doubt there would still be the usual objections from some quarters, but this is realistically only a small number of tickets and is not going to leave anyone exposed to fraud, so really it should just forced through. Refunds would be paid after evidence of a replacement ticket was submitted.