Local transport tickets with one hour limits in European cities

[Feuillesmortes]

Local transport tickets with one hour limits

- can you continue to your stop if you have boarded at the 59th minute
- can you do a quick return trip A - B - A

As an example below, Toulouse doesn't make it clear so I was wondering what the reasonable interpretation is in general, based on what other European cities do.

- Un déplacement permet d'utiliser 4 lignes différentes sur une période d'1 heure (1h30 si utilisation de la Navette aéroport) à partir de la première validation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Generally the journey must be completed within the hour, but the schemes may vary (e.g. London's bus hopper is just for entry within the time) so you would need to check each one.

 

[eddp]

Two very different examples:

• In Berlin a single ticket is valid for 120 minutes and break of journey is allowed, but travel must always be in one direction and so return trips are excluded. The ticket loses validity 120 minutes from validation so if you were to board a tram 119 minutes after validating and there were to be a ticket check 3 minutes later, you would be seen as not having a valid ticket.
• In Barcelona, looking at a single trip on a T-Casual (a 10-journey pass), the ticket is valid for 75 minutes from validation (plus 15 minutes for each additional zone) for each of the ten journeys, but that is the time between the first and last validation (when changing eg from metro to bus the ticket must be re-validated). Once a ticket is validated, it is valid to the end of the line (on a bus) or for 2 hours (on the metro), so if you entered a bus at the first stop and validated at 74' you could travel right to the end of the line. Exiting and re-entering the metro (or suburban train network) is not allowed, and nor is validating on the same bus route twice, however in principle a return journey travelling one way by bus and the other by metro is not excluded (and indeed if you validate your ticket properly on both legs you would only be charged one journey as long as the second validation is within the allowed time).

Looking at the terms for Toulouse, I would say that the ticket is only valid for that one hour period (ie if there were a ticket check 65 minutes after your validation you would be treated as not having a valid ticket - subject to discretion of course) but that similarly to Barcelona a round trip is OK as it is not explicitly excluded.

 

[miklcct]

Generally the journey must be completed within the hour, but the schemes may vary (e.g. London's bus hopper is just for entry within the time) so you would need to check each one.

This is not true in Budapest where its 30- or 90-minute m-tickets allow entry until the last second of validity. You need to scan the code on every entry.

 

[duncanp]

In Lille, the ticket is valid for up to an hour after the first validation of the ticket.

Le trajet unitaire permet de voyager en Tram, Métro, Bus et TER (entre les gares de la MEL). Valable une heure à compter de la première validation, il permet de voyager à volonté : correspondances, interruptions et retours compris. Il n'est pas cessible après validation.

You can interrupt your journey (eg. for shopping) or return to your point of origin.

The cut off point is that the ticket must be validated no later than 1 hour after the first validation.

So if you get on a bus, tram or metro 59 minutes after the first validation, you can continue your journey even if it exceeds the 1 hour time limit.

If there was a ticket inspection, they would be able to see that your ticket was validated within the time limit.

 

[DanielB]

Here in the Utrecht province (NL) tickets purchased on the bus are valid for 60 minutes or longer (up to 150 minutes for the longest distance). Changing is allowed, but for some reason the terms and conditions don't mention if you should have left the bus within an hour or just need to change within an hour.

In the evening this ticket is sold as a return ticket with 2x 60 minutes validity, but wouldn't know how that's checked as the drivers can't stamp it at the start of the return journey. (They don't have a stamp anymore since tickets are coming from a printer now payment is only possible by bank card)

 

[rf_ioliver]

Here's Helsinki: https://www.hsl.fi/en/travelling/ticket-validity-and-interchanging

"AB, BC and D tickets are valid for 80 minutes, ABC and CD tickets for 90 minutes, BCD tickets for 100 minutes and ABCD tickets for 110 minutes."

Which IIRC means any change must be made in that time. AB is Helsinki and parts of Espoo - basically the extent of the metro line, C inclues Vantaa and D a huge area around this.

 

[mikeg]

It's the same with tickets in Vilnius for buses and trolleybuses at least, the ticket is valid for the amount of time specified and you have to get off before it expires. In fact the m tickets will refuse to display and warn you as they're about to expire. To be honest I think it's a stupid system. Why should a passenger pay more for a bus stuck in traffic?

 

[miklcct]

To be honest I think it's a stupid system. Why should a passenger pay more for a bus stuck in traffic?

Therefore I think that the London system of pay-per-boarding is the best. The Vilnius system doesn't help if the same route takes 90 minutes in peak hours but only 30 minutes for the first / last bus!

 

[dutchflyer]

There are no set rules for that and one has indeed to enquire everywhere what the exact rules are.
In PL=POland as a general rule, for city transport, this replaces the zones used elsewhere and travel is hence strictly limited to the time bought: often this is like 15/20/30/60 etc. minutes-with as many changes/boardings one can fit in that time. This also applies to several local CZech citysystems.
Another species in DE=Germany are these type of tickets not just for one town, but a large area- f.e. in NRW there is the ´Schöne Reise´ =nice trip which is for 2 hrs (plus a hard to find but allowed 10 extra mins.´Karenz´ but on all local trains/buses etc in this Land-so considerable distance can be done-the price is also much higher as a normal cityticket. The next hurdle is then how the often very big delays are included-or not.
On the BUSes (and trams) of deLIJN in BElgium one validation is valid for 60 mins and one can indeed end the trip way beyond that if last checkIn was at min 58-59-in theory even the whole coastal tram.
In HT-Copenhagen (long ago, may have changed) time at boarding counted-but when a random check would happen, it was just trust one had boarded before that time-maybe even 15 KMs before.
Yes, its quite different on the continent as on that island in the NorthSea! Mostly because of the self-service applied.

 

[johncrossley]

Where you use smartcards or contactless cards the ticket can't expire while on the vehicle because you can't see an expiry time on the card. With a paper ticket or app ticket you can see the expiry time. With a paper ticket you can stamp another ticket or strip before the old ticket expires.

 

[AdamWW]

Where you use smartcards or contactless cards the ticket can't expire while on the vehicle because you can't see an expiry time on the card. With a paper ticket or app ticket you can see the expiry time.

I don't think that's always true. The user can't see an expiry time (unless maybe their phone can read a smartcard and tell you) but ticket inspectors will be able to.

One of the problems overall with using any kind of contactless card is that generally the user has no way of looking at it to make sure it's valid (e.g. to check that they touched in properly).

To take an example, this year I bought a 2 hour ticket in the Netherlands on a disposable card. The rules say:
"The last check-in is possible within 2 hours after the first check-in. You still have maximum 15 minutes to check out."

So unless I've misinterpreted that, after 2 1/4 hours the ticket becomes invalid, and its up to the user to note down the time they first used it and keep track themselves.

Not very satisfactory at all in my view, but that seems to be how it is.

 

[johncrossley]

I don't think that's always true. The user can't see an expiry time (unless maybe their phone can read a smartcard and tell you) but ticket inspectors will be able to.

But if the user can't see the expiry time then it is unreasonable to expect the user to revalidate before the ticket expires. In many if not all cases, revalidation will not even be permitted under the rules. For example, with the TfL bus fare you are not allowed to touch in twice on the same bus.

 

[AdamWW]

But if the user can't see the expiry time then it is unreasonable to expect the user to revalidate before the ticket expires. In many if not all cases, revalidation will not even be permitted under the rules. For example, with the TfL bus fare you are not allowed to touch in twice on the same bus.

It may be unreasonable but it seems to be the rules in some places.

 

[DanielB]

To take an example, this year I bought a 2 hour ticket in the Netherlands on a disposable card. The rules say:
"The last check-in is possible within 2 hours after the first check-in. You still have maximum 15 minutes to check out."

That seems to be an unique requirement only present in the conditions published by RET. GVB has a similar ticket on a disposable chipcard, but just says it won't work anymore after 1 hour (they don't have a two hour version).

The common approach with the OV-chipcard is however that the time of checking in counts, as that's the moment determining which product on the chipcard is used.
Probably GVB and RET have introduced that condition to have similar conditions for the chipcard and app tickets. They actually are the only operators selling such tickets on chipcards, due to subway gates not being useable with paper tickets.

 

[AdamWW]

That seems to be an unique requirement only present in the conditions published by RET. GVB has a similar ticket on a disposable chipcard, but just says it won't work anymore after 1 hour (they don't have a two hour version).

The common approach with the OV-chipcard is however that the time of checking in counts, as that's the moment determining which product on the chipcard is used.
Probably GVB and RET have introduced that condition to have similar conditions for the chipcard and app tickets. They actually are the only operators selling such tickets on chipcards, due to subway gates not being useable with paper tickets.

Surely since with an OV-chipcard the price is determined by checking in and out, the issue of how long a fixed-duration ticket is actually valid for isn't relevant?

 

[The exile]

It's the same with tickets in Vilnius for buses and trolleybuses at least, the ticket is valid for the amount of time specified and you have to get off before it expires. In fact the m tickets will refuse to display and warn you as they're about to expire. To be honest I think it's a stupid system. Why should a passenger pay more for a bus stuck in traffic?

In most cities the timings are such that the traffic would have to be really exceptionally appalling for the time limit to be exceeded if the ticket is being used as intended (as opposed to the enthusiast milking it for all it’s worth). In those cases, one would expect discretion to be applied as everyone on board would be in the same situation (or at least able to testify to the traffic delays)

 

[Feuillesmortes]

In most cities the timings are such that the traffic would have to be really exceptionally appalling for the time limit to be exceeded if the ticket is being used as intended (as opposed to the enthusiast milking it for all it’s worth).

I think popping to a supermarket and back within an hour is a reasonable use of such a ticket, for example

 

[The exile]

I think popping to a supermarket and back within an hour is a reasonable use of such a ticket, for example

Depends on the conditions - obviously some permit out and back - but the (German) ones I’ve been used to were definitely intended to be for a journey in one direction - just with an unlimited number of changes.