Log Train passing through Penrith

[Skiddaw]

As some of you may know, we live in Clifton (Cumbria). Most days, at around 14:30, we're visited by the Log Train.

It's enormously long and- obviously- packed full of recently cut logs. It parks on the down freight loop for around half an hour (I think it must wait for a series of Avanti and TPE passenger trains to overtake) and I always like to imagine the driver has a (well earned) tea break whilst they're parked up. We love the Log Train.

It must come down from somewhere in Scotland (we've seen it pass through Carlisle station from the Glasgow side) but we'd love to know a bit more about it (where it comes from, where its going, etc).

How on earth does a single locomotive pull something that heavy? The drivers must be so skilful- when the train departs it seems to do so without so much as a single jerk.

I'm sure you lot will have chapter & verse. Any info appreciated....

 

[trainmania100]

The train runs from Chirk to Carlisle yard. The engine powers a generator which controls traction motors connected the wheels. The traction motors have enough electricity from the generator to move the logs.

 

[Skiddaw]

The train runs from Chirk to Carlisle yard. The engine powers a generator which controls traction motors connected the wheels. The traction motors have enough electricity from the generator to move the logs.

Thanks! That's interesting about the engine and how it moves the logs. Is that Chirk in Wales? Does the train start from Carlisle then? I'd assumed it started somewhere further north. Why does it go to Chirk? Is there a big sawmill plant at Chirk?

 

[DelW]

Thanks! That's interesting about the engine and how it moves the logs. Is that Chirk in Wales? Does the train start from Carlisle then? I'd assumed it started somewhere further north. Why does it go to Chirk? Is there a big sawmill plant at Chirk?

I believe that the timber is headed to Kronospan:

Kronospan - Leading manufacturer of wood-based panels

High quality melamine faced boards, particleboard, lacquered panels, worktops, HDF, OSB, flooring and facades for the furniture and interior design industries.

kronospan.com

Kronospan manufactures and distributes wood-based panels. Globally we are one of the leading manufacturers of:

• Particleboard (PB)
• Medium density fibreboard (MDF)
• Laminate flooring
• UF, MUF and MF resins for wood-based panels
• Oriented strand board (OSB)

Kronospan also produces speciality and decorative paper as well as other associated value added products, such as melamine-faced panels, worktops, wall panels, window sills, lacquered HDF, compact boards, high pressure laminates (HPL), plywood and others. Kronospan manufactures wood-based panels at 40 sites and is local in many countries.

 

[Skiddaw]

Fascinating! Thank you both. Presumably the logs are delivered to Carlisle Yard from a variety of forestry sites in the Borders and beyond.

How long is the log train approximately? We've been trying to estimate the length.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Fascinating! Thank you both. Presumably the logs are delivered to Carlisle Yard from a variety of forestry sites in the Borders and beyond.
How long is the log train approximately? We've been trying to estimate the length.

I think they come from the Kielder Forest area, and are trucked to the loading point in Carlisle.
Kronospan takes wood from several sources, including places in Devon, west Wales and further north in Scotland.
They tend to have "seasons", with trains over maybe several months from a particular source, and then switch to another one.
From Carlisle they are sometimes routed via the Settle & Carlisle route, Hellifield and Blackburn to Wigan and on to Chester/Chirk.

Chirk has an enormous stocking area for its timber, and you can see the plume of steam from the factory for many miles.
Access is only from the southbound line (Chester-Shrewsbury), so the trains sometimes do strange routes to and from Chirk so as to arrive/leave the right way round.
This is a snapshot of today's workings - just a northbound run of empties to Carlisle, but you can see other possible paths which can be activated:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Chirk Kronospan Colas Rail all day on 06/03/2025

Train information at Chirk Kronospan Colas Rail all day on 06/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s timed for 1400tonnes, which is similar to the weight of the intermodal (container) trains that you will also see going past and about half the weight of the heaviest aggregate trains hauled in this country.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I don't see the log train too much but I didn't think anyone else would know it as just the "logs train".

Are there other log trains?

I don't have many videos of it passing since most of the chances I've had were during the darker months, but it makes quite a racket.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Cumberland Council has just passed plans for new sidings in Carlisle that will see up to 6 additional timber trains a day running within 3 years.

 

[chiltern trev]

The loaded train comes out of Carlisle Kingmoor yard, 6J37.

A link to todays run https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H10244/2025-03-06/detailed departed Kingmoor at 1159. The length is of the order of 25 wagons (or coach lengths).

 

[ac6000cw]

It’s timed for 1400tonnes, which is similar to the weight of the intermodal (container) trains that you will also see going past and about half the weight of the heaviest aggregate trains hauled in this country.

As some of the aggregate trains out of Merehead are timed for 4200 tonnes, shouldn't that be a third of the weight?

 

[Dave W]

Always nice when I used to see it passing through as it does leave quite the intense smell of chopped "fresh" wood. Better than diesel at any rate!

 

[geordieblue]

Cumberland Council has just passed plans for new sidings in Carlisle that will see up to 6 additional timber trains a day running within 3 years.

Although I think they’re reception sidings for the BSW timber mill in Carlisle rather than loading sidings for the Kronospan mill in Chirk. Carlisle will be both a destination and a source of timber!

 

[Skiddaw]

Thank you everyone- you've all been most informative! We shall greet the log train with even more enthusiasm now....

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Although I think they’re reception sidings for the BSW timber mill in Carlisle rather than loading sidings for the Kronospan mill in Chirk.

Must admit, I wasn’t too sure what the intended traffic was (other than timber).
Where would the trains originate from then?

 

[geordieblue]

Must admit, I wasn’t too sure what the intended traffic was (other than timber).
Where would the trains originate from then?

I may have misspoken, having read more into it (albeit it still isn’t entirely clear). It seems the idea is to run trains Fort William-Carlisle carrying finished timber goods (for onward distribution to the south); Carlisle-Arrochar (empty); and Arrochar-Fort William (loaded with raw timber) although you would think they would supply Carlisle with raw timber too. An exciting proposal nevertheless. https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24952162.new-rail-carlisle-area-gets-go-ahead-councillors/

 

[norbitonflyer]

The train runs from Chirk to Carlisle yard.

Don't you mean from Carlisle to Chirk?

 

[yorkie]

Don't you mean from Carlisle to Chirk?

The confusion might have been due to the original post appearing to suggest it was at night (which could have been interpreted as the same train going back north). I have now edited the post, to use the 24 hour clock, to make it clear that it is the daytime working, rather than the empties at night, that is being referred to.

 

[Skiddaw]

The confusion might have been due to the original post appearing to suggest it was at night (which could have been interpreted as the same train going back north). I have now edited the post, to use the 24 hour clock, to make it clear that it is the daytime working, rather than the empties at night, that is being referred to.

Sorry for any confusion. Yes- I was indeed meaning the daytime working.

 

[Condor7]

The Carlisle to Chirk loaded logs has for many years run via the Settle & Carlisle line Monday to Friday and as required Saturday, rejoining the WCML near Preston and only occasionally going via Penrith. Despite the longer journey it was usually quicker because the route via Penrith often involved several waits in loops due to the volume of trains using that route. At the moment it is still scheduled to run via the S&C on Mondays & Fridays.

Whether this current pattern remains for long or reverts back to mainly via the S&C is unclear. The return empty train has always returned via the WCML overnight other than the occasional divert via the S&C .

 

[driver9000]

As some of you may know, we live in Clifton (Cumbria). Most days, at around 14:30, we're visited by the Log Train.

It's enormously long and- obviously- packed full of recently cut logs. It parks on the down freight loop for around half an hour (I think it must wait for a series of Avanti and TPE passenger trains to overtake) and I always like to imagine the driver has a (well earned) tea break whilst they're parked up. We love the Log Train.

The loop you refer to which is above Clifton is in the Up direction and is known as Eden Valley. In the Down direction trains would be recessed at Penrith station or further south.

 

[Skiddaw]

The loop you refer to which is above Clifton is in the Up direction and is known as Eden Valley. In the Down direction trains would be recessed at Penrith station or further south.

Apologies. You're quite right. I always think of it as Down because it's pointing south (if that makes sense!)

 

[Tester]

Apologies. You're quite right. I always think of it as Down because it's pointing south (if that makes sense!)

It makes perfect sense, but not on the railway - where it is up to London!

 

[Adrian Barr]

A few photo links that may be of interest:

Overview of Carlisle Kingmoor Yard from the south, with empty log wagons in the "Up Departure" sidings (also used for arrivals) and the main part of the yard in the distance:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_hoare/53681804784/ (Photo: Andy Hoare)
There's an extensive area of logs over on the left by the blue buildings, which is the BSW sawmill mentioned by geordieblue:

Although I think they’re reception sidings for the BSW timber mill in Carlisle rather than loading sidings for the Kronospan mill in Chirk. Carlisle will be both a destination and a source of timber!

In the first few seconds of this YouTube video of the BSW sawmill (which as noted above is not related to the Kronospan traffic) you can see the loading area for the Colas trains in the background, with a class 70, pile of logs, and timber wagons:

BSW Timber Carlisle

Carlisle Timber loading sidings seen in 2018 with 70811: https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/45158175371/ (Photo: Adrian Nicholls)
On google maps the timber sidings are where it says "Colas Rail Carlisle Fuel Point"

A moody shot of the surprisingly large Kronospan factory in April last year. There's a train in there somewhere! https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/54270179562/ (Photo: robmcrorie)

Looking at a random consist of the 6J37 Carlisle - Chirk train on 4th November last year, 70009 was hauling 18 wagons weighing 1154 tons, with a total length of 1311 feet / 400 metres.

 

[Skiddaw]

Wow! I had no idea the Kronospan factory was so big!

Enjoyed the loading sidings clip and pic too. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Condor7]

It appears that things for now are nearly returning to how it was previously with the Carlisle to Chirk log train now scheduled to run via the Settle & Carlisle line every mid week day except Thursday when it will run via Penrith. How permanent this will be we will have to wait and see.

 

[Skiddaw]

It appears that things for now are nearly returning to how it was previously with the Carlisle to Chirk log train now scheduled to run via the Settle & Carlisle line every mid week day except Thursday when it will run via Penrith. How permanent this will be we will have to wait and see.

That explains why we haven't seen it passing through the village this week.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Apologies. You're quite right. I always think of it as Down because it's pointing south (if that makes sense!)

I think of it as Up because it's towards Shap Summit. (Doesn't work at Tebay though!)