London - Cambridge North return on a weekend on Greater Anglia

[miklcct]

I am checking some fares for a possible trip to Cambridge North on a Saturday. On that day, the line from Kings Cross is closed, leaving the line from Liverpool Street the only railway line to Cambridge.

I have noticed there is a fare, W SUP OPK DAY R (SO2) from London Terminals to Cambridge North Greater Anglia only, with restriction code FA (weekend only), which is only available from London Terminals (i.e. Liverpool Street) and is much cheaper than all other fares from nearby stations to Cambridge North, at £9.90 with 26-30 Railcard discount. The cheapest valid through fare from my home station, Cricklewood, is £14.50, which is an + any permitted Super Off-Peak Day Return (CBA) with restriction FB set by Thameslink, therefore if I use Oyster between Cricklewood and Liverpool Street (Underground) and the Greater Anglia ticket mentioned above, I can save £0.50 compared to using a through ticket.

Unfortunately the cheap Greater Anglia ticket comes with a break of journey restriction, which means I can't use it to start from Tottenham Hale, or any other non-zone 1 stations.

It is counter-intuitive that I am forced into the busy zone 1 for the cheap fare. Is there really no way to get a cheaper fare by avoiding zone 1 in this case?

 

[JonathanH]

It is counter-intuitive that I am forced into the busy zone 1 for the cheap fare. Is there really no way to get a cheaper fare by avoiding zone 1 in this case?

You could try walking the mile from Hoxton to Liverpool Street.

 

[Watershed]

I am checking some fares for a possible trip to Cambridge North on a Saturday. On that day, the line from Kings Cross is closed, leaving the line from Liverpool Street the only railway line to Cambridge.

I have noticed there is a fare, W SUP OPK DAY R (SO2) from London Terminals to Cambridge North Greater Anglia only, with restriction code FA (weekend only), which is only available from London Terminals (i.e. Liverpool Street) and is much cheaper than all other fares from nearby stations to Cambridge North, at £9.90 with 26-30 Railcard discount. The cheapest valid through fare from my home station, Cricklewood, is £14.50, which is an + any permitted Super Off-Peak Day Return (CBA) with restriction FB set by Thameslink, therefore if I use Oyster between Cricklewood and Liverpool Street (Underground) and the Greater Anglia ticket mentioned above, I can save £0.50 compared to using a through ticket.

Unfortunately the cheap Greater Anglia ticket comes with a break of journey restriction, which means I can't use it to start from Tottenham Hale, or any other non-zone 1 stations.

It is counter-intuitive that I am forced into the busy zone 1 for the cheap fare. Is there really no way to get a cheaper fare by avoiding zone 1 in this case?

No, the cheaper fare only exists to compete for passengers from London Terminals, where GTR set the Any Permitted fare. From Tottenham Hale, the TSA prohibits GA from setting a dedicated fare (other than on a temporary basis, e.g. the annual Hare Fare offer) as they set the interavailable fare - and in any event, GA would have little incentive to create a dedicated fare, given that they receive the lion's share of the revenue through ORCATS.

All this being said, there isn't actually a break of journey restriction on these fares. As an Off-Peak ticket, the T&C's as shown on NRE (and on booking engines) says that break of journey is permitted unless prohibited by the restriction code - and there is nothing in the restriction code text which prohibits break of journey.

Even if there were a BoJ restriction, it is extremely unlikely that any frontline member of staff would be aware of it, let alone would try to enforce it.

 

[miklcct]

All this being said, there isn't actually a break of journey restriction on these fares. As an Off-Peak ticket, the T&C's as shown on NRE (and on booking engines) says that break of journey is permitted unless prohibited by the restriction code - and there is nothing in the restriction code text which prohibits break of journey.

Even if there were a BoJ restriction, it is extremely unlikely that any frontline member of staff would be aware of it, let alone would try to enforce it.

I'm now considering bringing my bike out on that day as both my home and my destination are some distance away (1.7 km and 2.1 km respectively) from the nearest railway station, so I'm thinking of the following alternative:

* Cycle to Brondesbury
* Use the North London Line to Hackney Central
* Take a northbound train from there, changing as necessary until I hit Cambridge North.

If there is, indeed, a break of journey restriction on the £9.90 ticket I will need to use a £12.10 ticket from Bethnal Green / Cambridge Heath / London Fields / Hackney Downs (which, ironically, undercuts the fare from Tottenham Hale as it's priced by Great Northern rather than Greater Anglia, and the fare from the edge of the Oyster zone Cheshunt and Broxbourne is just 10p less at £12.00) + 2 x £1.05 Oyster fare to complete the journey.

I am also considering going to London Fields on my way back, but if I can save fare or the next train to London Fields is a long wait at Hackney Downs I will leave the station at Hackney Downs and cycle from there as London Fields is not on the route from Cambridge North to Brondesbury.

So, my questions now are that?
1. Will I be in trouble if I go against the break of journey restriction in the database, if I get caught on the London Overground / at an Overground station?
2. Are there e-ticket readers at Hackney Downs? Will there be a major hassle if I attempt to use the e-ticket at Hackney Downs to break the journey on that £9.90 ticket?
3. How much faster is it to go via Zone 1, i.e. by taking the Jubilee and Metropolitan lines to Liverpool Street, then Greater Anglia out, compared to avoiding Zone 1 through Hackney Central / Hackney Downs, such that I can justify paying 65p extra each to go the long way, if I can use the £9.90 ticket at an intermediate station?
4. If I "play by the rules" and want to break my journey at London Fields at the return, is the £12.10 ticket + 2 x £1.05 Oyster fare the best combination the fares?

 

[Watershed]

If there is, indeed, a break of journey restriction on the £9.90 ticket I will need to use a £12.10 ticket from Bethnal Green / Cambridge Heath / London Fields / Hackney Downs (which, ironically, undercuts the fare from Tottenham Hale as it's priced by Great Northern rather than Greater Anglia, and the fare from the edge of the Oyster zone Cheshunt and Broxbourne is just 10p less at £12.00) + 2 x £1.05 Oyster fare to complete the journey.

1. Will I be in trouble if I go against the break of journey restriction in the database, if I get caught on the London Overground / at an Overground station?

The data in the database is wrong and there is no evidence that it's intentional. In any event, you have to go based on what is communicated to the customer, not what is hidden in a database that 99.99% of people wouldn't even know exists. The customer is told that they can break their journey on a Super Off-Peak Day Return unless the restriction code says otherwise, and the restriction code doesn't give any restriction on BoJ. So BoJ is permitted.

The worst possible outcome, even if there were a BoJ restriction (which there isn't), would be to have to pay the excess to the cheapest fare permitting BoJ.

2. Are there e-ticket readers at Hackney Downs? Will there be a major hassle if I attempt to use the e-ticket at Hackney Downs to break the journey on that £9.90 ticket?

No idea. If you encounter any hassle, I don't think it would be because of staff thinking that this particular fare has a BoJ restriction; it would most likely arise as a result of them wrongly thinking that you can never break your journey on any ticket (the knowledge of some of the staff I've come across at Overground gatelines is shockingly poor).

 

[miklcct]

In any event, you have to go based on what is communicated to the customer, not what is hidden in a database that 99.99% of people wouldn't even know exists. The customer is told that they can break their journey on a Super Off-Peak Day Return unless the restriction code says otherwise, and the restriction code doesn't give any restriction on BoJ. So BoJ is permitted.

The retailer I use does quote that Break of Journey: No, according to the database.

The worst possible outcome, even if there were a BoJ restriction (which there isn't), would be to have to pay the excess to the cheapest fare permitting BoJ.

Thanks. I will just use the ticket and pay the excess if I am told that I can't break my journey at London Fields in case my plan changes.

 

[miklcct]

The retailer I use does quote that Break of Journey: No, according to the database.

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Thanks. I will just use the ticket and pay the excess if I am told that I can't break my journey at London Fields in case my plan changes.

Retract - there is a Train Company restriction which means I can't travel to London Fields anyway as it isn't served by Greater Anglia trains. I will do the same at Hackney Downs instead.

 

[greatkingrat]

The link from Hackney Central - Hackney Downs is inside the gateline, so you won't need to show your ticket to anybody.

 

[miklcct]

The link from Hackney Central - Hackney Downs is inside the gateline, so you won't need to show your ticket to anybody.

My intention is to break the journey at Hackney Downs and get out of the station, and resume it later in the evening.

Anyway, I have done some detailed calculation and the conclusion is that, if I bring my bike on board, travelling on the fast train, which doesn't stop at Hackney Downs, all the way to Liverpool Street and cycling back to London Fields only takes me 4 minutes more than changing at Tottenham Hale and getting out at Hackney Downs, as the stopping train only runs every half an hour which means an average of 15-minute wait.

Changing at Cheshunt (assuming the use of an unrestricted ticket) will be worse off despite having both Greater Anglia and London Overground available to Hackney Downs because of the large number of stops.

So if I bring my bike on board I will probably use the cheap ticket as intended and travel all the way back to London Liverpool Street, as travelling via Liverpool Street is the best way to get me and my bike to Cambridge from my home instead of via Hackney Central.