Maesteg to Swansea services?... A real possibility?

[adamt958]

Once the capacity to the line has been increased, would there actually be any chance of a Maesteg - Swansea service down the line past the Fountain Crossing to Margam where it would rejoin the main line. I know there would have to be a second platform added at Tondu at the junction where the old platform was located but I don't see it as a bad idea?. Perhaps a new station at Kenfig Hill?.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think that this would ever be a high priority. There are far more deserving cases for investment, sorry.

 

[anthony263]

Not to say it couldnt happen but you would need someone to man the crossing gates at Cwm Ffoes. Another issue is that there ius likely to already be a half hourly service from Maesteg to Cardiff and a Swansea service would need to do the journey in 55 minutes or less in order to compete against the X3 bus service.

There is also the case for pathing the services along the mostly single track line. You would need to install new points at the passing loop at the Parc Slip open cast mine . There is talk of building a very large housing estate on the land a few years after the open cast has been filled in.

Railfuture have proposed a tram-train network running from the Bridgend Valleys to Porthcawl using part of the Tondu - Margam line.

Network rail are re-signalling the entire line to allow more trains to use it especially when there are diversions such as when the line between Bridgend and Margam is being electrified. This will also be used for diversions by IEP trains. You could raise the linspeeds along the pretty straight sections of line especially between Kenfig Hill/Parc Slip and Mrgam but there is a pretty tight set of curves near to the old signal box at the former Cefn Cribwr Junction.

Overall a pretty good idea however I am not too sure if it will happen for a good number of years if at all especially because there are many other routes which are calling out for investment. It is far more likely that the Bridgend Valley railway will perhaps run some services over part of the route in the future.

One final point however would be passenger numbers I am not too sure there would be high demand especially if Pyle gets a full hourly off peak service and continues to get additional calls by Milford Haven - Manchester services during the peaks giving the station a 30 minutely service

 

[Flamingo]

Changing at Bridgend is not that difficult, I don't think a case could be made for it.

 

[Squaddie]

Changing at Bridgend is not that difficult, I don't think a case could be made for it.

I think there is significant (and understandable) resistance in the UK to changing trains in order to complete a journey because the experience is so often totally abysmal. Missed connections, long waits, treks with luggage across bridges to the other side of large stations, the worry whether you will get seats together (or any seat) on the connecting service...

Only when the public has complete confidence in the reliability and punctuality of the rail service, and the capacity of the trains, will they lose their reluctance to change trains.

 

[anthony263]

Changing at Bridgend is not that difficult, I don't think a case could be made for it.

That another reason and the X3 bus from Maesteg is pretty quick although you could run it non stop via the M4 between Port Talbot and Swansea which would save you about 10 minutes rather than going via the A48 & Baglan bringing Maesteg - Swansea down to 45 minutes.

I doubt the train could compete against that the only was it could is if the direct line from Maesteg to Port Talbot was re-opened.

In fact I recon a direct Treherbert/Aberdare - Swansea service would be more able to justify themselves than this proposal

 

[Flamingo]

I think there is significant (and understandable) resistance in the UK to changing trains in order to complete a journey because the experience is so often totally abysmal. Missed connections, long waits, treks with luggage across bridges to the other side of large stations, the worry whether you will get seats together (or any seat) on the connecting service...

Only when the public has complete confidence in the reliability and punctuality of the rail service, and the capacity of the trains, will they lose their reluctance to change trains.

Good points, but Bridgend is two and a half platforms (plus one unused bay for the pedants around here), good lifts, and I can guarantee that anybody travelling down the branch line would be familiar with Bridgend station (which is not big enough to get lost in).

At the end of the day, Maesteg and area is a population of 20K according to Wikipedia, it already has rail links to Bridgend and Cardiff, there would not be a big enough population to support the investment involved.

 

[anthony263]

Exactly Bridgned is probably one of the easiest stations to change trains at especially with the new 2nd footbridge.

Anyway you do have reasonable interchange times, for example between the Maesteg and Vale of glamorgan services.

Platform 3 used to be a through platform tile the cafe and waiting room was built and platform 3 is only really used these days to run back Maesteg services short at Bridgend if there is any disrutption on the mainline between Bridgend and Cardiff.

I do have a photo on my computer somwhere of a class 158 in platform 3 at Bridgend which was taken back in 2011/2012.

 

[Squaddie]

Good points, but Bridgend is two and a half platforms (plus one unused bay for the pedants around here), good lifts, and I can guarantee that anybody travelling down the branch line would be familiar with Bridgend station (which is not big enough to get lost in).

At the end of the day, Maesteg and area is a population of 20K according to Wikipedia, it already has rail links to Bridgend and Cardiff, there would not be a big enough population to support the investment involved.

I completely agree; my points were intended as general observations rather than specific to Bridgend. (But even the easiest interchange isn't much good if the incoming service is late and you miss the connection).

 

[anthony263]

Hopefully some things will be sorted once we have improved services such as the Maesteg service being increased to every 30 minutes along with the Vale of glamorgan services.

A clockface 20 minutely mainline service to Swansea would help improve things as well.

All Bridgend station needs is an improved bus link, maybe a Bridgend Town
99p bus service like they have in Pontypridd

 

[Flamingo]

I do have a photo on my computer somwhere of a class 158 in platform 3 at Bridgend which was taken back in 2011/2012.

Probably the last time anything was on it!

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Exactly Bridgned is probably one of the easiest stations to change trains at especially with the new 2nd footbridge.

Anyway you do have reasonable interchange times, for example between the Maesteg and Vale of glamorgan services.

Platform 3 used to be a through platform tile the cafe and waiting room was built and platform 3 is only really used these days to run back Maesteg services short at Bridgend if there is any disrutption on the mainline between Bridgend and Cardiff.

I do have a photo on my computer somwhere of a class 158 in platform 3 at Bridgend which was taken back in 2011/2012.

That's not strictly true. There are some annoying workings, from Maesteg, which do not connect with the Vale of Glamorgan for the sake of a couple of minutes. It's particularly irritating to know that the timing between Llantwit Major and Barry often leads to trains waiting time at Barry.

Platform 3 was newly built for the Maesteg service although it is near enough on the alignment of the old through platform. It can only just accommdate a two car set, as you say, is only used now for emergency purposes.

 

[anthony263]

Yes I know every aberdare train I have caught from Bridgend has gotten to Barry in 30 minutes yet it is timed to take 33-34 minutes. With Emu's there is enough time to add the proposed station at Cowbridge road which will be useful for serving Bridgend College for example.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Once the capacity to the line has been increased, would there actually be any chance of a Maesteg - Swansea service down the line past the Fountain Crossing to Margam where it would rejoin the main line. I know there would have to be a second platform added at Tondu at the junction where the old platform was located but I don't see it as a bad idea?. Perhaps a new station at Kenfig Hill?.

It is an interesting idea and please don’t think that I’m throwing cold water just for the sake of argument. The railway line is there and is about to be improved enabling such a service to be run but there are several things to consider.

The present X3 Bus service is pretty limited and the last departure from Swansea to Maesteg is at 1710. Does this mean that there is no latent demand or that First Bus is simply ignoring the market?

In times past, Swansea might have been seen as the nearest ‘big shopping centre’ but times have changed. The city has declined as an attractive destination, particularly for women, whilst at the same time Cardiff has expanded for those in need of retail therapy, all within easy walking distance of Cardiff Central station.

Swansea High Street station, by way of contrast, is very much at the wrong end of the city since all post war development has been in the area that was badly bombed. Ironically, Swansea Victoria was ideally placed to serve this area.

I cannot see a demand for such a service unless Swansea can somehow re-invent itself as a must visit destination rather than a destination for weekend binge drinkers. I am sorry if this seems a harsh description of Swansea but that is, I’m afraid, the way that most people regard it these days.

 

[anthony263]

Sadly the X3 service has changed drastically over the years. It used to be a 30 minutely interval between maesteg and Port Talbot but it was cut back to hourly back in 2008.

Apart from that it was a pretty decent service and was used by a good number of people.

The early mroning and evening services used to run to/from Cymmer to the north of Maesteg and to Neath & P/Talbot Hospital which used to be served by the daytime services to Swansea before First changed it so that it was served by the X1A/X4.

The 1st bus which I didn once or twice when the contract was with Veolia departed Cymmer at 04:55 arriving into Maesteg bus stn at 05:15 and Port Talbot at 05:38. The last bus used to depart Maesteg at 23:50 although that I never really saw anyone use apart from some traveling from Maesteg to Bryn on a friday night.

Here is a photo taken at Maesteg bus station at 2345 on a monday evening:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33762202@N08/7128787105/in/photolist-bRWU3v-bRWTqF

Neath & P/Talbot council cut the funding for the extra services so while there is a good amount of demand there First Cymru are unwilling to operate the services commercially. Perhaps in the future others operators lik Select bus & coach service will look at funding some services along the route

 

[Greenback]

My main observation about the service not happening was based on the lack of demand between Maesteg and Port Talbot/Swansea. There is more demand for Cardiff!

The fact that First is not willing to operate the X3 on a commercial basis does not indicate that there is massive demand. I accept that there will always be some demand, but if it is not enough to support a bus service, I can't see how a rail service could be justified, given the higher costs of running trains against buses.

I know that First demand a certain percentage return on their investment when running routes, but even so, I can't see that the route would ever make a profit at all outside peak travelling times.

Given that there is a reasonable alternative to using Tondu to Margam direct, by changing at Bridgend, I cannot see that the idea will be cost effective. If it is ever brought in, it won't be for many years as anthony263 suggested.

A tram/train will be more viable, but I can't even see that getting off the ground any time soon.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Yes I know every aberdare train I have caught from Bridgend has gotten to Barry in 30 minutes yet it is timed to take 33-34 minutes. With Emu's there is enough time to add the proposed station at Cowbridge road which will be useful for serving Bridgend College for example.

It is ridiculous that trains are allowed 9 minutes for the three and a quarter miles from Rhoose to Barry. In steam days the allowance was 7 minutes and was, usually, achieved in about 6.

 

[The Planner]

It is ridiculous that trains are allowed 9 minutes for the three and a quarter miles from Rhoose to Barry. In steam days the allowance was 7 minutes and was, usually, achieved in about 6.

They aren't, the sectional running time start to stop from Rhoose to Barry is 6 minutes. They are required to have 1½ engineering allowance approaching Barry. Seeing as that makes 7½ in total then the PTT has to have a differential to make the whole minute which is why the journey time is 8 minutes.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

They aren't, the sectional running time start to stop from Rhoose to Barry is 6 minutes. They are required to have 1½ engineering allowance approaching Barry. Seeing as that makes 7½ in total then the PTT has to have a differential to make the whole minute which is why the journey time is 8 minutes.

Yes, I agree, I was referring to PTT but that still doesn't alter the fact that most trains arrive at Barry about three minutes early which suggests the running time is unduly generous.

 

[anthony263]

It is generous between Bridgend & Llantwit Major, Takes 13 minutes towards Cardiff and coming into Bridgend it is over 15 minutes.

Using Emu's there should be enough time to slot a call at a new station at Cowbridge Road

 

[The Planner]

Same reason, 1½ engineering allowance approaching Bridgend, just the reverse of the Barry situation.

 

[anthony263]

Just been reading in the Glamorgan Gazette a letter from Railfuture who propose a light rail link from Porthcawl to Pyle Railway station then some on street section before picking up the route of the line from Pyle to Cefn Cribwr Junction before continuing on to Tondu with a possible extension using the cycle track onwards to Nantymoel.

The way Porthcawl is trying to develop itself I think a light-rail link would be great if money was available for it. Porthcawl can easily become a commuter town a bit like Weston Super Mare is to Bristol.

There are some obstructions namely the M4, a doctors surgery in Kenfig Hill at the tip between Bridge Street & Pisgah Street and on the opposite side of the road a new memorial/seating area has recently been constructed. apart from that the rest is mostly a cycle path

 

[Greenback]

I think a light rail link may work for Porthcawl one day.

 

[anthony263]

It certainly will although the bus operators will not be too happy loosing some customers

 

[Greenback]

It certainly will although the bus operators will not be too happy loosing some customers

They can apply to run the light rail franchise instead

 

[swcovas]

I think a light rail link may work for Porthcawl one day.

Much as I think it would be great to see I just can't see it happening. Nearly all the trackbed out of Porthcawl has been lost. In reality the local authorities were glad to get rid of the line back in the 60s because it got rid of the troublesome level crossing in the centre of Porthcawl and it freed up land for road improvements. In Porthcawl I can't see where the line could possibly go today.

I also wonder whether despite its size as one of the largest in Wales without a railway, summer visitors and commuters could it possibly support a railway? The reason I question this is because it wouldn't act as any form of railhead for anywhere other than the town. At present Pyle and Bridgend act as railheads for the Porthcawl which has no other centres of population nearby to attract custom in the way that, say, Maesteg does. Having said that the bus monopoly is hardly attractive...... the X2 bus to Cardiff takes over 90 mins and as for getting to Swansea that is a REALLY tedious journey!!!

 

[Greenback]

Much as I think it would be great to see I just can't see it happening. Nearly all the trackbed out of Porthcawl has been lost. In reality the local authorities were glad to get rid of the line back in the 60s because it got rid of the troublesome level crossing in the centre of Porthcawl and it freed up land for road improvements. In Porthcawl I can't see where the line could possibly go today.

I haven't been to Porthcawl for a couple of years, so I'm a bit out of date with current developments there, but a modern single track line with occasional double track sections doesn't take up as much room as a road, so I'm sure that some route could be found. Though it's the expense of such land purchase that would be the biggest obstacle as I doubt anything remains in public ownership.

I also wonder whether despite its size as one of the largest in Wales without a railway, summer visitors and commuters could it possibly support a railway? The reason I question this is because it wouldn't act as any form of railhead for anywhere other than the town. At present Pyle and Bridgend act as railheads for the Porthcawl which has no other centres of population nearby to attract custom in the way that, say, Maesteg does. Having said that the bus monopoly is hardly attractive...... the X2 bus to Cardiff takes over 90 mins and as for getting to Swansea that is a REALLY tedious journey!!!

I think your concerns are very valid, and I have similar thoughts. It would, though, help the town to attract more visitors in, while helping the residents gain access to Cardiff and Swansea.

The provision of some sort of rail link itself would make the area more attractive to residents - one could be in Cardiff or Swansea in under an hour.

While Maesteg may have a greater population in its catchment area, a railway would stimulate population growth, and Porthcawl is probably more attractive as a destination for visitors than Maesteg (no offence to the latter).

Having said that, there are lots of other schemes that appear to be far more viable and deserving of funding, so much as I would like to see it happen and think it would be beneficial to the area, I doubt that it will.

 

[anthony263]

There are plans to build new housing developments around Porthcawl and South Cornelly so a light rail link would be ideal.

First Cymru have increased the X2 Porthcawl - Cardiff service to operate every 15 minutes and buses are regulary packed. A lot of the issue's with journey times is because of peak hour traffic from Culverhouse Cross into Cardiff City Centre.

Pyle station does have issue's with parking, I know the rugby club have complained about commuters using their car park which is causing problems when visitors to the rugby club want to park their car's.

There will have to be some compulsory purchase orders as some developers built two houses in the middle of the trackbed near Pyle station. There is a footpath to the staion car park which passes the front of some of the new houses to the east of Pyle station.

It will also be fun trying to get the trams across the A48 near Pyle Garden centre and through Villiage Farm Industrial Estate to join up with the former trackbed of the Pyle to Cefn Cribwr Junction railway

 

[swcovas]

I haven't been to Porthcawl for a couple of years, so I'm a bit out of date with current developments there, but a modern single track line with occasional double track sections doesn't take up as much room as a road, so I'm sure that some route could be found. Though it's the expense of such land purchase that would be the biggest obstacle as I doubt anything remains in public ownership.

I think your concerns are very valid, and I have similar thoughts. It would, though, help the town to attract more visitors in, while helping the residents gain access to Cardiff and Swansea.

The provision of some sort of rail link itself would make the area more attractive to residents - one could be in Cardiff or Swansea in under an hour.

While Maesteg may have a greater population in its catchment area, a railway would stimulate population growth, and Porthcawl is probably more attractive as a destination for visitors than Maesteg (no offence to the latter).

Having said that, there are lots of other schemes that appear to be far more viable and deserving of funding, so much as I would like to see it happen and think it would be beneficial to the area, I doubt that it will.

The main road from the town centre and seafont area basically follows the old trackbed for a couple of miles almost as far as Nottage which was the only intermediate station on the branch. This is a dual carriageway with built up housing on either side. A bit of trackbed is still intact at Nottage and beyond but then its been cut again by the golf course (easy to build over that!!!) and the M4 connection. Again I have to say that I really can't see where a line could be built. Any suggestions from anyone???

Also, much as I feel that a line would be attractive to residents or would be residents Porthcawl has enough to attract potential house buyers. Its house prices are very much in the the upper price bracket which still sell relatively easily, higher than avg Income and high car ownership and not some depressed valley town needing some economic stimulus vis a vis most of the other reopenings we've seen in South Wales.

As far as visitors to the town are concerned to be honest the season is quite short......8/10 weeks max? Outside this period the town probably only brings in visitors at weekends when the weather is fine.

I am sure that had it survived that bit longer (it was originally only closed temporarily for the winter of 63/64) it would be a useful and busy commuter and "holiday" line which would be much more attractive than the bus. I agree that at the end of the day beneficial as it would be there are far more worthy schemes
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First Cymru have increased the X2 Porthcawl - Cardiff service to operate every 15 minutes and buses are regulary packed. A lot of the issue's with journey times is because of peak hour traffic from Culverhouse Cross into Cardiff City Centre.

Didn't know about increase in frequency. Just looked at timetable......still half hourly to Cardiff with the extra buses to Bridgend only. Still a long drag to Cardiff!

 

[anthony263]

During the peaks the extra buses run through to Cardiff.

(I know that since I used to work for First Cymru until August)