Merseyrail Class 777 travel experiences

[John Luxton]

I took two round trips this morning and thought the units quite pleasant to ride on. I had previously taken a look around one when it was displayed at Birkenhead North 18 months ago.

One quirky thing I noticed this time was that most window bays have plastic hooks above them.

Are these intended for coats? Just appears a strange fitting and perhaps something which would break as they look plastic though might be plastic coated metal. But obviously if they are coat hooks Bletchleyite should be happy!

With regard to on board temperatures does it not make more sense to have lower temperatures in winter not just because of coats - but also because it supresses viruses.

Were we not all being told to increase ventilation a couple of years ago to supress Covid?

On a personal basis at home at at work I have always preferred a cool / cold environment in winter and put down the fact that I seldom catch anything to the benefits of cold, fresh air.

 

[Bertie the bus]

With regard to on board temperatures does it not make more sense to have lower temperatures in winter not just because of coats - but also because it supresses viruses.

Were we not all being told to increase ventilation a couple of years ago to supress Covid?

That had nothing to do with temperature. The reason that is suggested is to permit airborne viruses to escape and fresh air in. Aircon, if it refreshes the air at times rather than just recirculates it, should do that irrespective of what the temperature is set at.

 

[karlbbb]

Just had my first trip on the 777 - very nice indeed. Can’t wait to be able to take a trip past Kirkdale and feel their acceleration up to 60 through the tunnels.

Lovely and quiet, smooth, the huge windows did make it feel like a very nice environment, and I didn’t find the seats offensively hard, though definitely harder than the 507/508s. Plenty of enthusiasts and inquisitive public around, and a lot of cameras! I also found it very nice to be able to “properly” see all the way down the train, and the curves out of Central seemed to exaggerate (in a good way) just how open they are. Nice experience in all

The door release feels very slow, even when the doors are pre-armed (the white ring light appeared as the train managers armed them in motion). I’m guessing this is just drivers taking their time on new stock until everyone is trained and familiar.

 

[Luke McDonnell]

Does anyone know if the 777 is going to be in service for the rest of the week and if yes does anyone have a timetable of which services are 777 operated on Liverpool-Kirkby as I might take a ride on it if possible

 

[507 001]

It's perfectly possible to design seat that are comfortable and fire standards.

I also heard a member of staff saying the same thing about the seats and tunnel regs.

My first thought was that it was a complete load of wibble.

Nice train, if a little soulless. Terrible, terrible seats. Not sure they’ll ever be a worthy successor to the PEPs.

 

[samrammstein]

Does anyone know if the 777 is going to be in service for the rest of the week and if yes does anyone have a timetable of which services are 777 operated on Liverpool-Kirkby as I might take a ride on it if possible

The onboard staff today expected that a single 777 will work this diagram on weekdays, for this week at least:

2K17 1050 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G78 1113 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K20 1135 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G81 1158 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K23 1220 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G84 1243 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K26 1305 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G87 1328 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K29 1350 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G90 1413 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K32 1435 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G93 1458 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K35 1520 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G96 1543 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K38 1605 Liverpool Central to Kirkby

 

[Bletchleyite]

I also heard a member of staff saying the same thing about the seats and tunnel regs.

My first thought was that it was a complete load of wibble.

Nice train, if a little soulless. Terrible, terrible seats. Not sure they’ll ever be a worthy successor to the PEPs.

At least there are more than no seats aligned to the windows. Very much the bad side of the production PEP.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Anyone moaning about the seats on the 777's, has nothing else to moan about. They are perfectly fit for purpose. They are NO harder/firmer than those on the existing 507/508 stock, just slightly less contoured (i.e. flatter).

The trains are a million times better than the old stock, move on.

 

[WizCastro197]

I also heard a member of staff saying the same thing about the seats and tunnel regs.

My first thought was that it was a complete load of wibble.

Nice train, if a little soulless. Terrible, terrible seats. Not sure they’ll ever be a worthy successor to the PEPs.

To passengers, they definitely will be.

 

[Sheridan]

Indeed, the seats look a bit close together - I did like the gap on the current sets as it reduces invasion of personal space and gives larger people / fidgeting kids more space

On my trip yesterday I did find the seats too close together for someone (like myself) on the larger side. I stood rather than taking available aisle seats because I would either have been perched half on, half off the seat, or squashing the person in the window seat. As most journeys are fairly short ones this won’t be a massive issue for me personally, but the gaps between most seats on the 507/8s were good. The 777s have quite a wide aisle though, which is the upside of the seats being close together.

 

[507 001]

Anyone moaning about the seats on the 777's, has nothing else to moan about. They are perfectly fit for purpose. They are NO harder/firmer than those on the existing 507/508 stock, just slightly less contoured (i.e. flatter).

The trains are a million times better than the old stock, move on.

They very much are harder than the existing seats.

They’re also very ‘sit up and beg’.

But ok, let’s forget that. How about the lack of shoulder room? How about the fact that if you’re in the single seat next to the cab door, you have to move out of the way to let driver/guard in?

How about the ludicrously steep ramps over the bogies?

Like I said, it’s a nice train, and incredibly well built. That doesn’t mean they’re perfect though.

 

[Grumpy Git]

They very much are harder than the existing seats.

No, I’m sorry but they really aren’t.

I jumped off the 777 and within a couple of minutes I was on a 507. I checked the seat bases purposely and there’s no perceivable difference in how much they ‘give’.

 

[507 001]

No, I’m sorry but they really aren’t.

I jumped off the 777 and within a couple of minutes I was on a 507. I checked the seat bases purposely and there’s no perceivable difference in how much they ‘give’.

It’s funny, I did the exact same thing but the other way round. Off a 508 onto a 777 and guess what? The 777 was considerably harder.

I don’t get back ache on a PEP.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s funny, I did the exact same thing but the other way round. Off a 508 onto a 777 and guess what? The 777 was considerably harder.

I don’t get back ache on a PEP.

I found on the mockup that the headrest stuck out and pushed into my upper back (you have to be pretty short to rest your head on it) - did you get that or have they fixed it? I did feed it back. I would prefer wider seats but understand why they've done as they have (same as the 700) so didn't push that side of it, and off peak you'll likely have a pair to yourself anyway, you usually do.

How's the lighting? It looks from pics and videos I've seen that it's dynamic, as sometimes there are 4 strips on and sometimes 2? Does it drop to 2 when outdoors? Unlike the mockup it seems to be all quite a harsh white rather than one pair being white and one pair being warm white?

 

[507 001]

I found on the mockup that the headrest stuck out and pushed into my upper back (you have to be pretty short to rest your head on it) - did you get that or have they fixed it? I did feed it back. I would prefer wider seats but understand why they've done as they have (same as the 700) so didn't push that side of it, and off peak you'll likely have a pair to yourself anyway, you usually do.

How's the lighting? It looks from pics and videos I've seen that it's dynamic, as sometimes there are 4 strips on and sometimes 2? Does it drop to 2 when outdoors? Unlike the mockup it seems to be all quite a harsh white rather than one pair being white and one pair being warm white?

I found the headrest to be almost completely useless to be honest. It’s now so far back that you can’t actually use it without being uncomfortable, so what we’ve ended up with is a very hard, very upright low backed seat. They’re actually considerably worse than the original PEP seats, and maybe the worst seat on the railway at the moment (at best a close second to those fitted to the TPE nova fleet!).
I also do understand the reasoning for the narrowness, but I do think that it’s a poor choice. The PEPs were nicknamed ‘pack em perpendicular’ but the new fleets seem to be horrendous for passenger comfort, with the sole aim being pack as many in as possible. There has to be a compromise somewhere. The interior to me feels very cluttered and busy, and not as airy as Merseytravel staff keep trying to make out.

Lighting to me was fine, but then I quite like bright cool white lighting (I prefer our new M5000s to our older ones for this reason!). Can’t say I noticed any dynamic lighting but I wasn’t looking for it per se, and there was a lot to take in.

On a positive, I love the big windows, and I love how well built it is. It also rides quite nicely (unusually for new stuff). The passenger info system seems great. It also seemed very smooth in terms of power and braking delivery, but that was with what appeared to be a DTM at the helm, it’ll be interesting to see how some of the drivers get on with the notchless controls…

 

[Jamesrob637]

I went on my first 777s today from Liverpool Central to Kirkdale. They are such an improvement over the current stock.

 

[Wezz]

I went on my first 777s today from Liverpool Central to Kirkdale. They are such an improvement over the current stock.

When they work lol

 

[Bletchleyite]

When they work lol

And if you sit on a cushion. And you aren't tall.

It astonishes me that the interior of such expensive, custom designed units has been got so spectacularly wrong. They aren't quite as bad as the 720, the worst thing on rails for comfort, but they're a close second.

 

[Jamesrob637]

And if you sit on a cushion. And you aren't tall.

It astonishes me that the interior of such expensive, custom designed units has been got so spectacularly wrong. They aren't quite as bad as the 720, the worst thing on rails for comfort, but they're a close second.

I'm not that tall and the journey was only ten minutes long each way (was a 777 both ways)

 

[irish_rail]

I'm not that tall and the journey was only ten minutes long each way (was a 777 both ways)

Be interested to know what taller people who regularly do Chester or Southport into Liverpool think of the 777s.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Be interested to know what taller people who regularly do Chester or Southport into Liverpool think of the 777s.....

Kirkby and back was enough to give me backache...

 

[irish_rail]

Kirkby and back was enough to give me backache...

I must admit this modern day obsession with catering for the average person is very frustrating. Most people I meet are not average height and weight, yet train seating tends to ignore the fact. Its same on the IETs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must admit this modern day obsession with catering for the average person is very frustrating. Most people I meet are not average height and weight, yet train seating tends to ignore the fact. Its same on the IETs.

For all a collapsed Sophia is terrible (had an original build 5 car 800 last night and it was grim, you were literally sitting straight on the framework) I'd take them over these seats any day. Indeed, short journeys on regional trains is exactly what the Sophia was designed for!

 

[Vespa]

I'm not that tall and the journey was only ten minutes long each way (was a 777 both ways)

10 minutes is not really long enough to judge, I find the airline and end aisle fixed facing seat to be ok for seating, it's the lift up seats I have problems with because the seat is a very flat block putting pressure on the tailbone.

Travel to Chester or Southport is where the real challenge is, 45 minutes will soon tell how good those seats are going to be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

10 minutes is not really long enough to judge, I find the airline and end aisle fixed facing seat to be ok for seating, it's the lift up seats I have problems with because the seat is a very flat block putting pressure on the tailbone.

Travel to Chester or Southport is where the real challenge is, 45 minutes will soon tell how good those seats are going to be.

The issue I have is the way they force the back of a tall person into an unnatural curve due to the headrest position (which, as with many buses, is a "back of shoulders rest" to tall people). There was no need for a protruding headrest, a more basic seat like that used on Metrolink would have been preferable, or if the railway couldn't have low backs then ironing boards, the similar ones by the company that did them for Renatus 321s, or even Sophias.

Generally if anyone tries to be clever with seating it won't suit a significant proportion of users (e.g. if you add lumbar support then it'll only support the lumbar of a subset of users with the right shape). Simple is best.

They are also too narrow and there are no dividers between them (even 700s have about 2" gaps), so the aisle side person hangs out into the aisle, which reduces, rather than increasing, accessibility when fully loaded (as you have to be careful when moving through not to bash people).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm so excited to try these out when in the UK, primarily to see whether y'all have got a very good point regarding the seats, or whether you're just fussy or have sensitive rumps I'll report back here after

 

[Wezz]

I'm so excited to try these out when in the UK, primarily to see whether y'all have got a very good point regarding the seats, or whether you're just fussy or have sensitive rumps I'll report back here after

The seats are hard but this is due to fire regulations, Merseyrail has very narrow tunnels in the central section under Liverpool and this comes with very strict fire regulations.

Our tunnels are smaller than Crossrails tunnels, and we can only really be compared to the London Underground and other metro systems with small tunnels, something to bare in mind when visiting.

 

[irish_rail]

The seats are hard but this is due to fire regulations, Merseyrail has very narrow tunnels in the central section under Liverpool and this comes with very strict fire regulations.

Our tunnels are smaller than Crossrails tunnels, and we can only really be compared to the London Underground and other metro systems with small tunnels, something to bare in mind when visiting.

OK but that doesn't explain the ridiculous way a taller person has to sit in an unnatural position due to the headrest designed for the "average" person.

 

[Emaharg]

I tried 777004 to Kirkby and back yesterday. The main gripe was the air-con was not working in the passenger saloon. Driver's cab was definitely blowing cold air though. Some PIS screens were stuck not working correctly either. For balance much better than a 508.

 

[Vinnym]

I must admit this modern day obsession with catering for the average person is very frustrating. Most people I meet are not average height and weight, yet train seating tends to ignore the fact. Its same on the IETs.

You say that the seats are designed for the “average” person, then you go on to say most people you meet are not average, have the designers got it wrong with their definition of average, or are you just a serial complainer.