Milton Keynes after EWR opens

[quantinghome]

Milton Keynes will offer significant interchange opportunities when EWR opens later this year, with the potential to significantly improve journey times from the North to the Thames valley and relieve crowding elsewhere e.g. Birmingham New Street. Additional long distance through services may be tricky due to network capacity, is there a case for more WC services to stop there?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Milton Keynes will offer significant interchange opportunities when EWR opens later this year, with the potential to significantly improve journey times from the North to the Thames valley and relieve crowding elsewhere e.g. Birmingham New Street. Additional long distance through services may be tricky due to network capacity, is there a case for more WC services to stop there?

I doubt it, because alternative services from Oxford to Manchester/Scotland already exist. Most new traffic on East West Rail will be local. It would also be hard to path.

I suspect the next time this will be reviewed is the opening of HS2 Phase 1.

I do suspect the addition of Bletchley calls into the semi fast LNR Euston-Brum services was motivated by EWR though (plus the ease of changing crews over at Bletchley).

 

[The Planner]

Milton Keynes will offer significant interchange opportunities when EWR opens later this year, with the potential to significantly improve journey times from the North to the Thames valley and relieve crowding elsewhere e.g. Birmingham New Street. Additional long distance through services may be tricky due to network capacity, is there a case for more WC services to stop there?

Depends on what services you want to add a stop into. In most cases it won't work. Taking a random off peak northbound hour, if you added a stop in the fast Glasgow you clash with the Manchester behind it. Add one into that Manchester and you clash with the Scotland via West Mids. Put a stop in that train and you clash with the Blackpool behind that. Its relatively pointless to add a stop to that Blackpool as the Liverpool right behind it stops. You could put a stop in the Chester and sneak in front of the LNWR at Colwich. Putting a stop in the xx.13 Euston Manchester will cause a clash with the XC at Stoke and an up Euston at Cheadle Hulme. If the view was to do it, it would take a fair bit of messing about with the WCML.

 

[cle]

I am sure that we'll see lots of new journeys through MKC. I believe the second Liverpool may call there?

Timetabling will play a part - yes there is 1 tph Oxford-Manchester, but it's crap and slow. Many might prefer a connecting at MKC and a Pendo - for a comparable journey time, and the psychological horror people have about New Street. For the people of say, Bicester - yes likely a new route for long distance services (other than Birmingham of course),

After HS2, calling a slower Scotland there might be useful for Lancs etc. - for now it'll be Manchester and Trent Valley locations mostly. And anyone changing to Northampton.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I for one will use it to travel from Oxford to the North. Anything to avoid standing in a hopelessly-overcrowded 4-car XC voyager.

 

[Zomboid]

IMO any longer distance services on EWR would be more likely via to go Bedford and the MML when that part is upgraded, as per the open access application.

Though long WCML journeys to/from Oxford at least can still make more sense via London rather than Birmingham - I did that myself last year because the connection would have meant waiting an hour at Wolverhampton, meaning a later arrival than going via London was (also the train from Paddington had a better connection at Oxford into the hourly at that time of night bus that I had to use for the last leg home than a southbound XC).

 

[Kite159]

I for one will use it to travel from Oxford to the North. Anything to avoid standing in a hopelessly-overcrowded 4-car XC voyager.

Instead you will be standing in a hopelessly overcrowded 2 coach 196

 

[Zomboid]

Instead you will be standing in a hopelessly overcrowded 2 coach 196

As someone likely to use the service, part of me hopes there's some truth to that as it'll mean the line is successful.

So long as it's someone else who has to stand

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am sure that we'll see lots of new journeys through MKC. I believe the second Liverpool may call there?

An hourly Liverpool already does call there. The other one when it is added will not. Any confusion about this is because the current one *is* the "second" path.

 

[Magdalia]

I doubt it, because alternative services from Oxford to Manchester/Scotland already exist. Most new traffic on East West Rail will be local. It would also be hard to path.

I suspect the next time this will be reviewed is the opening of HS2 Phase 1.

I do suspect the addition of Bletchley calls into the semi fast LNR Euston-Brum services was motivated by EWR though (plus the ease of changing crews over at Bletchley).

I agree with this assessment.

Looked at from the Cambridge end, connections are needed at Bletchley not Milton Keynes.

I think that Cambridge-Birmingham via Bletchley will be more attractive than via Leicester, once EWR is open throughout.

Journeys that will be significantly improved by going via Bletchley will be Cambridge-Northampton and Cambridge-Coventry.

With Euston-Birmingham LNR trains calling at Bletchley, none of this requires any new stops.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It could be argued that that means, if pathable, that a Bletchley stop in the Avanti Birmingham semi fast may be a good thing to add. May not be pathable though. The WMT service to Euston is fast, but that to Birmingham is quite slow, and the fairly sloppy punctuality that seems to pervade these days means a connection from the xx32 or xx39 onto the semi fast Birmingham at MKC is not always reliable. Obviously those from the Oxford/Winslow side can change at MKC, but they have a direct Birmingham anyway, and much as XC is grim I doubt it's grim enough to add an extra change into the journey.

It will be interesting to see if there is much of a London commuter market from Winslow changing at Bletchley, or if Winslowites (!) will continue to drive to Aylesbury, Vale Parkway, Bletchley or MKC as they have done previously. I suspect a good proportion will be the latter as connections are usually not popular. I reckon you may get extra Oxford commuting from Buckingham though (driving to Winslow, or potentially even cycling there as there is a segregated cycle provision all the way, albeit one that occasionally requires some gardening).

 

[cle]

An hourly Liverpool already does call there. The other one when it is added will not. Any confusion about this is because the current one *is* the "second" path.

Ahh yes got it.

So there is, in a standard hour:
1 x Manchester
1 x Liverpool
1 x Brum
1 x Crewe - hopefully the EWR services will connect into these well.

I can't imagine 2 car 196s will be there forever either.

 

[jfollows]

The Avanti timetable has already added 7 minutes to every Manchester service by adding one stop to each service, although Milton Keynes was already one of the stops before then. So adding more MK stops, even if possible, will add similarly to other services. That said, if I need to go to Oxford in future I would vastly prefer to do so via Milton Keynes than via Birmingham.

 

[Zomboid]

can't imagine 2 car 196s will be there forever either

I believe 3 car Bi-modes are what's in the longer term plan for the route.

 

[cle]

It could be argued that that means, if pathable, that a Bletchley stop in the Avanti Birmingham semi fast may be a good thing to add. May not be pathable though. The WMT service to Euston is fast, but that to Birmingham is quite slow, and the fairly sloppy punctuality that seems to pervade these days means a connection from the xx32 or xx39 onto the semi fast Birmingham at MKC is not always reliable. Obviously those from the Oxford/Winslow side can change at MKC, but they have a direct Birmingham anyway, and much as XC is grim I doubt it's grim enough to add an extra change into the journey.

Could it be swapped with the Watford call (or do Watford-Bletchley-Rugby - and add MKC back to Scotland!)

I'd say that from EWR, Birmingham is the least likely WCML service to be needed. As Oxford has it, as does Bicester (North) - both quicker than via MKC. But Northampton/Rugby/Coventry frequency might be useful.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could it be swapped with the Watford call (or do Watford-Bletchley-Rugby - and add MKC back to Scotland!)

Not calling at MKC wouldn't be sensible, and Watfordians would shout about losing their only Avanti service.

I'd say that from EWR, Birmingham is the least likely WCML service to be needed. As Oxford has it, as does Bicester (North) - both quicker than via MKC. But Northampton/Rugby/Coventry frequency might be useful.

I'm more thinking the Cambridge side.

 

[cle]

Not calling at MKC wouldn't be sensible, and Watfordians would shout about losing their only Avanti service.

I don't think an Avanti would need to call at Bletchley and MKC. And didn't mean for Watford to lose - just rebalance the calls.

I meant semi-fast becomes:
Euston-Watford-Bletchley-Rugby-Cov...

and another becomes
Euston-MKC-Coventry instead.

Or Watford gains a fast Brum call (or a Manchester call, more needed) - to enable the pathing to work for the Bletchley call.

 

[The Planner]

I don't think an Avanti would need to call at Bletchley and MKC. And didn't mean for Watford to lose - just rebalance the calls.

I meant semi-fast becomes:
Euston-Watford-Bletchley-Rugby-Cov...

and another becomes
Euston-MKC-Coventry instead.

Or Watford gains a fast Brum call (or a Manchester call, more needed) - to enable the pathing to work for the Bletchley call.

As I said above, it causes real problems messing with the pattern. Putting MKC, or Watford in a fast Birmingham screws the Manchester behind it as well as the Coventry corridor. Putting a Watford stop in a Manchester either messes up Crewe and Cheadle Hulme, or Stoke and Stockport.