Missed flight

[mcauley358@goo]

Hi Everyone,

I have just come back from Italy having paid for a second flight out due to misinformation on my rail journey.

I was traveling from kettering to Gatwick for my flight to Rome on Sunday 23rd October.

My ticket ( booked in August) clearly states that I have to get off at Luton Parkway and connect to Thameslink to gatwick.

When I got off and scurried around looking for the electronic board I was told I would have to go to St Pancras. The resulting train took forever to get to St Pancras, then I was told by a guard I would have to go to London Bridge for my connection to Gatwick. Into the underground Northern line to London Bridge.

Caught the train which stopped at every station alone the way.

The result was I ended up missing the cut off point to board and missed the flight.

Surely I must be due some type of compensation for this ?

It cost me £255 for a new flight and I had to catch a bus to Heathrow from Gatwick (£27.95) as I had set my heart on this holiday.

To say i was annoyed is an understatement. if there is anyone out there who has had a similar experience and was compensated I'd like to hear from you.

Many Thanks.

 

[ashkeba]

I think you can probably claim your ticket cost under "delay repay" but, unless it was booked as one rail and flight package, you will probably need to claim from your travel insurance for the flight and bus cost, if possible.

 

[Haywain]

Unfortunately, there were no through trains from Luton Airport Parkway to Gatwick Airport on Sunday 23rd, with Thameslink services running into and terminating at St Pancras. When travelling at weekedns , in particular, it is always advisable to check your trains times very close to the date of travel in case such changes have been made. Clearly, with the changes, you would not have been able to arrive at Gatwick at the time scheduled in your original itinerary so you are likely to be eligible for Delay Repay compensation. However, it is unlikely that you will be able to recover the cost of a new flight from the train company.

It would be interesting to know how much time was allowed in your original schedule between your arrival at Gatwick Airport and the time of your flight, as it is always advisable to allow time in your plans for things to go wrong which, in your case, they certainly did.

 

[island]

I think you can probably claim your ticket cost under "delay repay" but, unless it was booked as one rail and flight package, you will probably need to claim from your travel insurance for the flight and bus cost, if possible.

Even that is not likely to be paid, as it's not clear the OP was delayed compared to the Published Timetable Of The Day (TM).

 

[ashkeba]

Even that is not likely to be paid, as it's not clear the OP was delayed compared to the Published Timetable Of The Day (TM).

In that case, I hope their travel insurance covers public transport to the airport and the insurer pursues the train company because this daily 10pm timetable change Nanse nonsense is massively unfair to customers and won't stand up once decent lawyers hit it.

 

[island]

My travel insurance will cover delays on public transport as long as I allow sufficient time. What “sufficient” means is undefined.

 

[Haywain]

In that case, I hope their travel insurance covers public transport to the airport and the insurer pursues the train company because this daily 10pm timetable change Nanse nonsense is massively unfair to customers and won't stand up once decent lawyers hit it.

This was engineering works so while tickets were on sale before the timetable was updated, we don't know that it was an especially late cancellation of an whole day's services.

Edit: Having checked the timetablehistory website, the through services to Gatwick/Three Bridges were removed from the timetable on 27th August, so nearly 2 months before the OP travelled and not nearly in PTotD territory.

 

[Mzzzs]

My travel insurance will cover delays on public transport as long as I allow sufficient time. What “sufficient” means is undefined.

I would recommend you contact your travel insurance to clear this up.

 

[yorkie]

Hi Everyone,

I have just come back from Italy having paid for a second flight out due to misinformation on my rail journey.

I was traveling from kettering to Gatwick for my flight to Rome on Sunday 23rd October.

My ticket ( booked in August) clearly states that I have to get off at Luton Parkway and connect to Thameslink to gatwick.

When I got off and scurried around looking for the electronic board I was told I would have to go to St Pancras. The resulting train took forever to get to St Pancras, then I was told by a guard I would have to go to London Bridge for my connection to Gatwick. Into the underground Northern line to London Bridge.

Caught the train which stopped at every station alone the way.

The result was I ended up missing the cut off point to board and missed the flight.

Surely I must be due some type of compensation for this ?

It cost me £255 for a new flight and I had to catch a bus to Heathrow from Gatwick (£27.95) as I had set my heart on this holiday.

To say i was annoyed is an understatement. if there is anyone out there who has had a similar experience and was compensated I'd like to hear from you.

Many Thanks.

What was the itinerary provided with your ticket exactly?

Did you allow at least two hours at Gatwick Airport?

Who did you book with? The company o book with informs me if the timetable has changed since I booked.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2022 ==

I would recommend you contact your travel insurance to clear this up.

Agreed, assuming sufficient time was allowed at Gatwick

As a general rule at least two hours should be allowed, however I would certainly allow more if my flight was from the north terminal.

 

[AlterEgo]

This must have either been a spectacular level of delay (two hours or so) or the OP tried to cut things too fine at the airport in the first place.

OP, what was your timetabled journey? And what journey and trains did you end up taking?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2022 ==

My travel insurance will cover delays on public transport as long as I allow sufficient time. What “sufficient” means is undefined.

And also, which timetable they use too, no? Does “delays on public transport” only cover on the day disruption, or does it cover advance disruption such as in the OP’s case?

 

[DeverseSam]

I don’t know if you got to the gate but airlines often show flights as « final call » or even « closed » on airport screens, when people haven’t even started boarding!

 

[richw]

This must have either been a spectacular level of delay (two hours or so) or the OP tried to cut things too fine at the airport in the first place.

I suspect the latter, or very poor planning. The engineering works were advertised 8 weeks before travel.

Personally I always allow minimum 3.5 hours minimum from train to flight. Plenty to do at the airport when the trains run perfectly and removes any stress.

 

[Watershed]

This must have either been a spectacular level of delay (two hours or so) or the OP tried to cut things too fine at the airport in the first place.

OP, what was your timetabled journey? And what journey and trains did you end up taking?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2022 ==


And also, which timetable they use too, no? Does “delays on public transport” only cover on the day disruption, or does it cover advance disruption such as in the OP’s case?

I usually plan things based on arriving to the airport 2 hours before the flight leaves. That seems to be the recommended time at most airports. A 1.5 hour delay could therefore quite foreseeably cause the flight to be missed.

I suspect the latter, or very poor planning. The engineering works were advertised 8 weeks before travel.

Personally I always allow minimum 3.5 hours minimum from train to flight. Plenty to do at the airport when the trains run perfectly and removes any stress.

Obviously the OP may have left insufficient time before their flight. But it seems quite plausible that instead, they actually bought their ticket in good faith, having allowed sufficient time - and the timetable was later changed without the OP being informed.

Whilst, as experienced rail travellers we might know that it's a good idea to check services the night before to see whether the timetable has changed or if there are cancellations - this is not at all obvious to the average person.

They would be well accustomed to the system used on flights and almost all other forms of pre-booked transport, whereby you would be notified if things change after you book.

The failure to ensure changes are published at the same time as tickets are released - as well as to ensure customers are notified of any changes post-booking - is typical of the poor customer service that's common across the industry.

 

[mcauley358@goo]

What was the itinerary provided with your ticket exactly?

Did you allow at least two hours at Gatwick Airport?

Who did you book with? The company o book with informs me if the timetable has changed since I booked.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2022 ==


Agreed, assuming sufficient time was allowed at Gatwick

As a general rule at least two hours should be allowed, however I would certainly allow more if my flight was from the north terminal.

Thanks for the replies, very helpful. My scheduled time to arrive was 10.08, granted not two hours before but I had nothing to check in so i literally had to go through security.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2022 ==

What was the itinerary provided with your ticket exactly?

Did you allow at least two hours at Gatwick Airport?

Who did you book with? The company o book with informs me if the timetable has changed since I booked.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2022 ==


Agreed, assuming sufficient time was allowed at Gatwick

As a general rule at least two hours should be allowed, however I would certainly allow more if my flight was from the north terminal.

Interesting you get informed of any delays or re-routes. I booked with the Trainline and had nothing about changes. Thanks for replying to this thread.

 

[Haywain]

I booked with the Trainline and had nothing about changes. Thanks for replying to this thread.

Sadly, this is another good reason for not booking with Trainline.

 

[mcauley358@goo]

I usually plan things based on arriving to the airport 2 hours before the flight leaves. That seems to be the recommended time at most airports. A 1.5 hour delay could therefore quite foreseeably cause the flight to be missed.


Obviously the OP may have left insufficient time before their flight. But it seems quite plausible that instead, they actually bought their ticket in good faith, having allowed sufficient time - and the timetable was later changed without the OP being informed.

Whilst, as experienced rail travellers we might know that it's a good idea to check services the night before to see whether the timetable has changed or if there are cancellations - this is not at all obvious to the average person.

They would be well accustomed to the system used on flights and almost all other forms of pre-booked transport, whereby you would be notified if things change after you book.

The failure to ensure changes are published at the same time as tickets are released - as well as to ensure customers are notified of any changes post-booking - is typical of the poor customer service that's common across the industry.

Yes, I agree. Imagine if you from overseas or an old age pensioner ? It's poor customer service like all the train services in this country they need desperately nationalising and fares being brough down. Thanks for replying to this thread.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2022 ==

Sadly, this is another good reason for not booking with Trainline.

Absolutely, that is the last fare they get from me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2022 ==

What was the itinerary provided with your ticket exactly?

Did you allow at least two hours at Gatwick Airport?

Who did you book with? The company o book with informs me if the timetable has changed since I booked.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2022 ==


Agreed, assuming sufficient time was allowed at Gatwick

As a general rule at least two hours should be allowed, however I would certainly allow more if my flight was from the north terminal.

Thanks, It was from the South Terminal. what company do you book with who informs you of any changes? Interested to know.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2022 ==

What was the itinerary provided with your ticket exactly?

Did you allow at least two hours at Gatwick Airport?

Who did you book with? The company o book with informs me if the timetable has changed since I booked.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2022 ==


Agreed, assuming sufficient time was allowed at Gatwick

As a general rule at least two hours should be allowed, however I would certainly allow more if my flight was from the north terminal.

 

[Haywain]

My scheduled time to arrive was 10.08, granted not two hours before but I had nothing to check in so i literally had to go through security.

Just how much less than 2 hours? Looking at your schedule and what you have explained about how your journey proceeded it seems likely that your arrival at Gatwick was no more than an hour later than scheduled, and could have been achieved fairly comfortably with only 30 minutes delay.

 

[Watershed]

Just how much less than 2 hours? Looking at your schedule and what you have explained about how your journey proceeded it seems likely that your arrival at Gatwick was no more than an hour later than scheduled, and could have been achieved fairly comfortably with only 30 minutes delay.

By my calculations, when the OP alighted at Luton Airport Parkway, the next available train to London would have been the 08:47. This arrived into St Pancras at 09:24.

With a journey time of 10 minutes on the Northern line to London Bridge, plus perhaps waiting 3 minutes for the next Tube and (at least) 5 minutes at each end getting between the National Rail and Tube platforms, they definitely wouldn't have made the 09:35 from London Bridge. But they may have made the 09:49 and are highly likely to have made the 10:05. These arrived into Gatwick at 10:37 and 10:40 respectively - a delay of 29 or 32 minutes.

The OP may well have been able to reduce their delay by travelling via Victoria (or indeed simply staying on their original train to St Pancras). Of course the OP wouldn't have known this, and may indeed tell us that they caught other trains and were thus delayed for longer.

If the delay was indeed around 30 minutes then I would agree with others' sentiments that it's likely insufficient time was allowed between the arrival of the train and the departure of the flight - and so any travel insurance claim would likely be denied.

I never check in luggage when I fly, but if I decided to allow less than 2 hours, I would do so in the knowledge that I would have limited recourse if I missed my flight as a result.

 

[jon0844]

While it usually results in me having to kill time at an airport where everything is trying to get you to spend money, I always plan arrival times based on my 'plan b' if things go wrong.

That might be having to take a long diversion, waiting to be given a taxi (or getting my own) or even going home and driving (and paying extortionate rates for parking).

Ultimately, things can go wrong besides planned engineering works that would be easily checked before travel, so if you need to get that flight this is the only safe solution. Not even travel insurance will suffice for a holiday you really wanted to go on.

 

[Haywain]

With a journey time of 10 minutes on the Northern line to London Bridge, plus perhaps waiting 3 minutes for the next Tube and (at least) 5 minutes at each end getting between the National Rail and Tube platforms, they definitely wouldn't have made the 09:35 from London Bridge. But they may have made the 09:49 and are highly likely to have made the 10:05. These arrived into Gatwick at 10:37 and 10:40 respectively - a delay of 29 or 32 minutes.

Same results as me, but I was allowing a simple half hour to/from/on the Northern line , so making the 10:05. The full hour delay would have involved some serious faffing about at Luton Airport Parkway, St Pancras and London Bridge.

 

[skyhigh]

Just how much less than 2 hours? Looking at your schedule and what you have explained about how your journey proceeded it seems likely that your arrival at Gatwick was no more than an hour later than scheduled, and could have been achieved fairly comfortably with only 30 minutes delay.

Having a quick browse of departures at Gatwick on the 23rd, the only flight that seems to fit was an 11.30 Wizz Air departure (W65781). Planning to arrive at the airport less than 90 mins before departure sounds like a recipe for disaster, no matter which method of transport you use.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for the replies, very helpful. My scheduled time to arrive was 10.08, granted not two hours before but I had nothing to check in so i literally had to go through security.

How did you become so delayed as to miss the flight? Like others, I’ve tried to replicate what happened and can’t see how you’d fail to make the flight, especially as you had no bags to check.

 

[miklcct]

Having a quick browse of departures at Gatwick on the 23rd, the only flight that seems to fit was an 11.30 Wizz Air departure (W65781). Planning to arrive at the airport less than 90 mins before departure sounds like a recipe for disaster, no matter which method of transport you use.

If it is a flight from a small airport without exit immigration (e.g. Southampton Airport), I may well target 60 minutes or even less to arrive at the airport. In the past I think I used some airports where the security didn't open until about 45 minutes before the flight.

 

[mcauley358@goo]

Same results as me, but I was allowing a simple half hour to/from/on the Northern line , so making the 10:05. The full hour delay would have involved some serious faffing about at Luton Airport Parkway, St Pancras and London Bridge.

There was no faffing, I assure you. Once I got on the train at Luton that was a slow one stopping for something on the track, it was betting down with rain that morning, branches ?. Once I arrived at St Pancras I then had to get to London Bridge (it's ok looking at timetables but when your stressed out and trying to get to your location and at the back of your mind your flight !) Once at London Bridge the train took an hour stopping at each station. All In all that took me almost 3 hours to get to Gatwick and still didn't make it. From 8-11 I arrived at 11.20 my gate shut at 11.10. If you are a regular train commuter then I guess you are use to the system and how the trains operate in the UK. I use them only now and again and on the whole they have been ok (we won't talk about how much it costs). I did the same journey over the summer no problem, I think that is where I ended up coming unstuck. You need to leave no end of time on a Sunday as it is way much going on. Including the nonchalant guard who told me to go to London Bridge. I had previously caught it from St Pancras to go to Gatwick over the summer. I'll try my best to see if I can at least get my one way ticket back, if not thanks for all the tips and advice from everyone.

 

[miklcct]

There was no faffing, I assure you. Once I got on the train at Luton that was a slow one stopping for something on the track, it was betting down with rain that morning, branches ?. Once I arrived at St Pancras I then had to get to London Bridge (it's ok looking at timetables but when your stressed out and trying to get to your location and at the back of your mind your flight !) Once at London Bridge the train took an hour stopping at each station. All In all that took me almost 3 hours to get to Gatwick and still didn't make it. From 8-11 I arrived at 11.20 my gate shut at 11.10. If you are a regular train commuter then I guess you are use to the system and how the trains operate in the UK. I use them only now and again and on the whole they have been ok (we won't talk about how much it costs). I did the same journey over the summer no problem, I think that is where I ended up coming unstuck. You need to leave no end of time on a Sunday as it is way much going on. Including the nonchalant guard who told me to go to London Bridge. I had previously caught it from St Pancras to go to Gatwick over the summer. I'll try my best to see if I can at least get my one way ticket back, if not thanks for all the tips and advice from everyone.

The line between St Pancras and London Bridge was closed for works so it was the reason you couldn't get a direct train.

However, I'm sorry that the British rail system is extremely confusing and hard to use for anyone, apart from a few local lines (which the line between Luton and Gatwick isn't one of them) even for those familiar with the system. Trains can stop everywhere or nowhere and there is nothing for you to distinguish them, and a train which says the destination on board may take up to 4 times the time needed by the next train.

If you have a record of the time when you got on and off trains we may be able to advise you further.

 

[island]

There was no faffing, I assure you. Once I got on the train at Luton that was a slow one stopping for something on the track, it was betting down with rain that morning, branches ?. Once I arrived at St Pancras I then had to get to London Bridge (it's ok looking at timetables but when your stressed out and trying to get to your location and at the back of your mind your flight !) Once at London Bridge the train took an hour stopping at each station. All In all that took me almost 3 hours to get to Gatwick and still didn't make it. From 8-11 I arrived at 11.20 my gate shut at 11.10. If you are a regular train commuter then I guess you are use to the system and how the trains operate in the UK. I use them only now and again and on the whole they have been ok (we won't talk about how much it costs). I did the same journey over the summer no problem, I think that is where I ended up coming unstuck. You need to leave no end of time on a Sunday as it is way much going on. Including the nonchalant guard who told me to go to London Bridge. I had previously caught it from St Pancras to go to Gatwick over the summer. I'll try my best to see if I can at least get my one way ticket back, if not thanks for all the tips and advice from everyone.

Any faffing that may or may not have happened is neither here nor there.

Fact of the matter is that your planned itinerary had you arriving at Gatwick train station 82 minutes before your flight departure. Wizzair and Gatwick Airport each recommend arriving at least two hours before your flight. That, in a nutshell, is where you went wrong.

Wizzair policy is to refund no-show flight tickets less a €83 fee, so if your flight cost more than that, they will refund the difference if you ask.

 

[AlterEgo]

If it is a flight from a small airport without exit immigration (e.g. Southampton Airport), I may well target 60 minutes or even less to arrive at the airport. In the past I think I used some airports where the security didn't open until about 45 minutes before the flight.

That's fine, but you do have a much bigger risk of missing the flight if you do that because that leaves very little wiggle room if something goes wrong.

 

[skyhigh]

If it is a flight from a small airport without exit immigration (e.g. Southampton Airport), I may well target 60 minutes or even less to arrive at the airport. In the past I think I used some airports where the security didn't open until about 45 minutes before the flight.

That's all well and good, but the airport and airline in question recommend arriving 2hrs before departure so aiming to arrive less than 60 mins before departure won't indicate to your travel insurance you made a reasonable effort to give leeway for disruption!

 

[Starmill]

In the past I think I used some airports where the security didn't open until about 45 minutes before the flight.

At a very small airport, the security queue will probably be for just one flight at a time, so it could be even less than this.

Of course, Gatwick Airport is one of the largest in the country. It's reasonable to expect both long walks from the platform to the gate via all of the departures area and also the likelihood of some queues.

 

[jon0844]

That's fine, but you do have a much bigger risk of missing the flight if you do that because that leaves very little wiggle room if something goes wrong.

Also, if you use trains very rarely then I'd say that's all the more reason to check your route (and that services are running) before the day. Indeed, even on the day it doesn't appear anything was checked.

You'd check the flight is still operating before going to the airport, so why not the transport to the airport?