MK-Euston short journey

[pr0308]

Hi all, on 13th Feb I was travelling from MK to London but had a short ticket. Before inspection I bought the ticket to London and explained to the officer that I was supposed to get down at mid station but when my plan changed I bought the full ticket. I was asked the usual questions and today received the below email:

My questions are:
1. Is this a generic email as in two years of travel this is the first time this happened and I have no other short tickets or fines or short travels in Trainline history
2. What’s the next step, I’ve responded to them explaining, apologising and referring to past journeys saying it’s never happened before. Please help. Email below from Trainline.

We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on 13th February 2025 when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket that was not valid for the journey you had completed, possibly committing short journey fraud.

You were interviewed under caution for possibly committing short journey fraud.
Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.

At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

[John R]

Can you set out exactly which two tickets you bought, ie FROM and TO which stations.

I’m afraid they will have heard the story that your plans changed mid journey numerous times - we’ve heard it here quite a few times too, and in most (if not all) cases other evidence quickly points to deliberate short ticketing, so you will have an uphill battle convincing investigators that your story is true.

Can you also let us know exactly what you sent to them please.

 

[pr0308]

First ticket from MK to Bletchley and then Bletchley to Euston. Showed officer both tickets. My worry is the fine which is enormous and criminal record. How serious is this email?

 

[John R]

And what did you send them? You will probably be offered a settlement in due course once they have checked your Trainline account. If it happens to show other tickets from MK to Bletchley that haven’t been scanned on exit then they may ask you about those too.

 

[alholmes]

So you bought a Milton Keynes to Bletchley ticket to enable you to get through the barrier at Milton Keynes, then only bought a Bletchley to London ticket when you saw the inspector? That’s how the train company will view it.

They will also have looked through your ticket history online to see if they can identify other short tickets.

The good news is that if you engage positively with West Midlands Trains you may be able to resolve this with an out of court settlement, but it’ll cost you all of the train fares that you’ve avoided, plus an admin fee of around £150. And for the fares avoided, you’ll be charged at the Anytime Single price between Milton Keynes and London (ignoring any short ticket you’ve bought or railcard discount).

There are plenty of threads on here and good advice from Hadders which show you how you should reply. Prepare a draft and post it here for feedback.

 

[pr0308]

And what did you send them? You will probably be offered a settlement in due course once they have checked your Trainline account. If it happens to show other tickets from MK to Bletchley that haven’t been scanned on exit then they may ask you about those too.

Thank you for taking out the time to reply. I sent them a Trainline screenshot of all journeys telling them that the other instance was as I was planning to deboard at Bletchley and go with a person in their car. But since that canceled so continued my journey at the same train and brought the extra ticket for that day continuing to London Euston

So you bought a Milton Keynes to Bletchley ticket to enable you to get through the barrier at Milton Keynes, then only bought a Bletchley to London ticket when you saw the inspector? That’s how the train company will view it.

They will also have looked through your ticket history online to see if they can identify other short tickets.

The good news is that if you engage positively with West Midlands Trains you may be able to resolve this with an out of court settlement, but it’ll cost you all of the train fares that you’ve avoided, plus an admin fee of around £150. And for the fares avoided, you’ll be charged at the Anytime Single price between Milton Keynes and London (ignoring any short ticket you’ve bought or railcard discount).

There are plenty of threads on here and good advice from Hadders which show you how you should reply. Prepare a draft and post it here for feedback.

Thank you for taking out the time to reply. My current draft is as below:

Dear West Midlands Trains and Investigations Team,

Thank you for your email regarding the incident on 13th February 2025. I am writing to sincerely apologise for the misunderstanding and the resulting concern regarding my ticket.

On that day, I purchased a short journey ticket with the intention of disembarking at Bletchley. However, due to unforeseen and immediate changes to my plans, I was required to travel directly to London. To avoid travelling without a valid ticket for my new destination, I continued the journey on the train to London and purchased the ticket. Before the officer checked for my ticket, I had already bought the journey ticket to London.

I understand that presenting a ticket that was not valid for the full journey caused confusion and raised concerns about potential fare evasion. I want to assure you that this was not a deliberate attempt to defraud West Midlands Trains. It was a spontaneous decision made to rectify an unexpected change in my travel plans.

Further, I have been a regular rail user for over two years and have always purchased appropriate tickets for my journeys. I have never previously encountered any issues or been accused of fare evasion.

I deeply regret this isolated incident and understand the importance of adhering to ticketing regulations. I understand that West Midlands Trains takes fare evasion seriously, and I respect your commitment to upholding the law. I genuinely believe this was a one-off mistake stemming from a sudden change of circumstances, and not a calculated attempt to defraud the railway.

I kindly request that you consider my explanation and the circumstances surrounding this incident. I’m embarrassed and have thought and regretted that day multiple times as in my two years of journeying with the UK railways I’ve shown my tickets at regular intervals to the officers and have always complied the law.

I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience or concern this incident has caused. I value the services provided by West Midlands Trains and hope that you will consider this matter as a genuine error rather than a deliberate offence.

 

[AlterEgo]

On that day, I purchased a short journey ticket with the intention of disembarking at Bletchley. However, due to unforeseen and immediate changes to my plans, I was required to travel directly to London.

Sorry that's not believable. Don't ask us or them to believe you wanted to take the train one stop, wholly within Milton Keynes to get a lift with someone in their car all the way to London, but in the four minutes you were on the train to Bletchley, your plans changed. We weren't born yesterday and neither are the people handling your case.

You bought the ticket to enter the barriers at Milton Keynes and bought the second ticket once you realised you were about to be caught.

People are here to give you completely free advice about your situation which you created for yourself. Don't waste their time or insult their intelligence.

 

[pr0308]

I apologise if it came across like that and I’m saying it was a short journey ticket to which I’ve already apologised to the team. But I’m also right in saying it’s the first in 2 years and the last incident and requesting members to guide me for anything I can do to remedy it. The email from them on criminal offence is scaring me and so I’m asking the members for their genuine help. I value their and your time for replying, so apologise if it came across the other way.

Sorry that's not believable. Don't ask us or them to believe you wanted to take the train one stop, wholly within Milton Keynes to get a lift with someone in their car all the way to London, but in the four minutes you were on the train to Bletchley, your plans changed. We weren't born yesterday and neither are the people handling your case.

You bought the ticket to enter the barriers at Milton Keynes and bought the second ticket once you realised you were about to be caught.

People are here to give you completely free advice about your situation which you created for yourself. Don't waste their time or insult their intelligence

 

[John R]

I’m confused. You say you responded to them, now you say it’s a draft. Have you sent them anything yet?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

First ticket from MK to Bletchley and then Bletchley to Euston. Showed officer both tickets.

@pr0308. Welcome to the forum. At what point in the journey did you buy the additional ticket, from Bletchley to Euston? Had the train already called at (or passed through) Bletchley by then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry that's not believable. Don't ask us or them to believe you wanted to take the train one stop, wholly within Milton Keynes to get a lift with someone in their car all the way to London, but in the four minutes you were on the train to Bletchley, your plans changed. We weren't born yesterday and neither are the people handling your case.

You bought the ticket to enter the barriers at Milton Keynes and bought the second ticket once you realised you were about to be caught.

People are here to give you completely free advice about your situation which you created for yourself. Don't waste their time or insult their intelligence.

Agree.

The other way round would be plausible (extending your journey from Bletchley to MKC) - I've done it a few times, that's OK as long as you purchase before the doors close at Bletchley. But the way the OP has done it sounds like a blatent lie (that the TOC would see straight through), and to get the best outcomes with these things honesty is important.

@pr0308. Welcome to the forum. At what point in the journey did you buy the additional ticket, from Bletchley to Euston? Had the train already called at or passed through Bletchley by then?

If it was normal singles/returns it must call there, of course. Only with seasons and Rovers (and the likes) is a non-stop split OK.

 

[AlterEgo]

I apologise if it came across like that and I’m saying it was a short journey ticket to which I’ve already apologised to the team. But I’m also right in saying it’s the first in 2 years and the last incident and requesting members to guide me for anything I can do to remedy it. The email from them on criminal offence is scaring me and so I’m asking the members for their genuine help. I value their and your time for replying, so apologise if it came across the other way.

Is your story true? Yes or no?

If you tried to dodge the fare then you need to be honest about it. It isn't the crime of the century and they will settle with you; they won't settle with you if they think you aren't being honest.

You need to be honest about whether you have done this before, too. The company certainly thinks you have, after looking at your ticket purchases. Have you?

 

[pr0308]

Is your story true? Yes or no?

If you tried to dodge the fare then you need to be honest about it. It isn't the crime of the century and they will settle with you; they won't settle with you if they think you aren't being honest.

You need to be honest about whether you have done this before, too. The company certainly thinks you have, after looking at your ticket purchases. Have you?

No Sir, I haven’t. I was between jobs and was short of funds. I tried to dodge it once but my bad luck that I got caught the same day. And I purchased the ticket when the Bletchley station arrived because I saw the revenue officer checking. So i did buy it right when the station came but I was quizzed that it was bought relatively now and not from the time of journey. So neither did I save money with the idea of dodging and I got caught in this procedure too. It’s kind of a double whammy.

Agree.

The other way round would be plausible (extending your journey from Bletchley to MKC) - I've done it a few times, that's OK as long as you purchase before the doors close at Bletchley. But the way the OP has done it sounds like a blatent lie (that the TOC would see straight through), and to get the best outcomes with these things honesty is important.



If it was normal singles/returns it must call there, of course. Only with seasons and Rovers (and the likes) is a non-stop split OK.

I bought at the Bletchley station from inside the train when I saw that there would be a checking shortly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I bought at the Bletchley station from inside the train when I saw that there would be a checking shortly.

If it was before the doors closed (was it?) we get into an interesting technicality. Most would consider extending journeys in this way to be OK, but I seem to recall the wording of the legislation strictly requires all tickets to be held for a journey before starting any part of it, so they might still be able to get a conviction there - does anyone else recall the precise wordings?

 

[tonycockram]

What we need to see is the tickets you have and when exactly they were bought and which train you were on.
Surely if the Bletchley to London ticket was bought before the train left Bletchley, the OP hasn’t committed a crime?

They had a valid ticket throughout.

‘ I purchased the ticket as the station arrived’

 

[Haywain]

does anyone else recall the precise wordings?

Is this the bit you're thinking of, from the Byelaws?

no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this the bit you're thinking of, from the Byelaws?

Yes, that'd be the one I think. It's slightly borderline - I don't have enough legal experience to know if, in a case where the extension was purchased before departure from the intermediate station but where it was blatently done because the passenger saw an inspector, such a charge would stick or not. Though in principle going from Euston to Bletchley and extending at the last minute to MKC is something someone might do, e.g. because they forgot where they parked or found a larger availability of hire e-scooters at the other one*, but going from MKC to Bletchley and extending to Euston is not really a genuine use-case you're going to get very often if ever.

* I've very occasionally done it for the latter reason. Fairly large swathes of south-west Milton Keynes are effectively between the two and both are useful.

 

[Haywain]

I don't have enough legal experience to know if, in a case where the extension was purchased before departure from the intermediate station but where it was blatently done because the passenger saw an inspector, such a charge would stick or not.

Same here. And the OP isn't really clear here on whether it was purchased at a stage that could be deemed to be before boarding - it certainly wasn't before 'entering a train'. I think the intention of the OP is clear and seeking a settlement is a better approach than trying out a dubious legal argument.

 

[pr0308]

Same here. And the OP isn't really clear here on whether it was purchased at a stage that could be deemed to be before boarding - it certainly wasn't before 'entering a train'. I think the intention of the OP is clear and seeking a settlement is a better approach than trying out a dubious legal argument.

So should I wait for their reply or offer a settlement myself?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Same here. And the OP isn't really clear here on whether it was purchased at a stage that could be deemed to be before boarding - it certainly wasn't before 'entering a train'. I think the intention of the OP is clear and seeking a settlement is a better approach than trying out a dubious legal argument.

I am inclined to agree that the OP should be honest about their intentions and seek to settle.

 

[Haywain]

So should I wait for their reply or offer a settlement myself?

You need to rewrite the draft in post #6 and include a request for a settlement in that letter. You letter needs to include:

• That you are sorry for what has happened
• What you have learned from the incident
• That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
• A request that they allow you to settle the matter without court action.

 

[John R]

So should I wait for their reply or offer a settlement myself?

Wait for their reply. There is only one party who can offer a settlement, and it isn't you.

You need to rewrite the draft in post #6 and include a request for a settlement in that letter.

But I'm confused. If they are asking should they wait for a reply then that implies they have already sent something?

 

[tonycockram]

The OP states they bought the ticket before arrival at the station in Bletchley. Surely they have done nothing wrong in the eyes of the railway. I don’t even see this as an edge case, from what the OP says.

They had the full requirement of tickets to go from Milton Keynes to London.
As long as the ticket from Bletchley was bought before leaving Bletchley how can they have done wrong?

Sorry am I missing something here?

For example on Saturday I travelled from Preston to Burnley and decided I wanted to go to Leeds. I bought a further ticket from Burnley to Leeds and stayed on the train. This was accepted by the conductor who happily scanned both tickets.

 

[Haywain]

The OP states they bought the ticket before arrival at the station in Bletchley.

That's not clear from the OP's posts.

 

[pr0308]

You need to rewrite the draft in post #6 and include a request for a settlement in that letter. You letter needs to include:

• That you are sorry for what has happened
• What you have learned from the incident
• That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
• A request that they allow you to settle the matter without court action.

I have drafted the following points, could you kindly let me know if it’s okay? Really appreciate the time of everyone helping on this one:


Dear West Midlands Trains,
Following my previous email regarding the incident on 13th February 2025, I am writing to reiterate my sincere apologies for the situation.

I want to emphasize how deeply sorry I am for the confusion and concern caused by my actions. I fully understand the importance of valid ticketing and the impact that fare evasion has on the railway network. This incident has been a valuable learning experience for me, and
I can assure you that I will be far more vigilant in the future, ensuring I always have the correct ticket for my journeys, regardless of any unexpected changes to my travel plans.

I am very keen to resolve this matter amicably and without the need for court action. I understand the severity of the potential charges and the resources required for legal proceedings. I would be grateful if you would consider allowing me to settle this matter out of court.

I am prepared to cooperate fully and am willing to discuss any reasonable settlement offer you may propose. I am committed to rectifying the situation and demonstrating my respect for West Midlands Trains and its regulations.
I respectfully request that you consider my willingness to resolve this issue and allow me to settle this matter without further legal action.
Thank you for your understanding and consideration.

That's not clear from the OP's posts.

No, I bought the ticket within the train when it was at Bletchley station, purchased by the time the train left the station.

 

[Haywain]

If they are asking should they wait for a reply then that implies they have already sent something?

The OP doesn't indicate that they have requested a settlement, and I think it would be a good idea to do so.

 

[Knoodlepot]

I bought at the Bletchley station from inside the train when I saw that there would be a checking shortly.

Not sure if the train was pulling in or had already stopped.

 

[Haywain]

could you kindly let me know if it’s okay?

First, edit the post to remove your name.

 

[pr0308]

The OP doesn't indicate that they have requested a settlement, and I think it would be a good idea to do so.

No, I haven’t requested one. I have just shared a draft above covering a few points that were mentioned. Before that I shared an email with them explaining the incident and apologising for the incident.

 

[Haywain]

I am prepared to cooperate fully and am willing to discuss any reasonable settlement offer you may propose. I am committed to rectifying the situation and demonstrating my respect for West Midlands Trains and its regulations.
I respectfully request that you consider my willingness to resolve this issue and allow me to settle this matter without further legal action.
Thank you for your understanding and consideration.
Sincerely,

The least bit is a bit over the top, and I would take out the parts indicated above. You don't want waffle to obscure your request for a settlement.