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More Summer Special services?

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Sad Sprinter

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Southeastern’s summer special trains are a cozy touch, but is there scope for other operators (or whatever they are now GBR is king) to run similar services? Perhaps a Southern service running on the slow lines to Brighton calling at Balham, Streatham Hill and Crystal Palace? Or a Great Eastern service to Clacton calling at East London stations?
 
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brad465

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FGW as it was then used to run a special called the "Weymouth Wizard", a HST from Bristol to Weymouth on top the existing line's Saturday service. It stopped after 2017 though but if the demand was there should IMO be brought back given how busy the Heart of Wessex line can get in the summer. I imagine barriers to its reinstatement now are line capacity, especially if it clashes with SWR diagrams that have been added to the Yeovil-Westbury section, and GWR having a rolling stock shortage.
 

Sad Sprinter

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FGW as it was then used to run a special called the "Weymouth Wizard", a HST from Bristol to Weymouth on top the existing line's Saturday service. It stopped after 2017 though but if the demand was there should IMO be brought back given how busy the Heart of Wessex line can get in the summer. I imagine barriers to its reinstatement now are line capacity, especially if it clashes with SWR diagrams that have been added to the Yeovil-Westbury section, and GWR having a rolling stock shortage.

Would be interesting if it went from Paddington and called at West London stations
 

The exile

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FGW as it was then used to run a special called the "Weymouth Wizard", a HST from Bristol to Weymouth on top the existing line's Saturday service. It stopped after 2017 though but if the demand was there should IMO be brought back given how busy the Heart of Wessex line can get in the summer. I imagine barriers to its reinstatement now are line capacity, especially if it clashes with SWR diagrams that have been added to the Yeovil-Westbury section, and GWR having a rolling stock shortage.
Imagine the biggest problems at the moment are a) lack of suitable stock spare at weekends and b) lack of crew to work them.
 

xotGD

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Perhaps an opportunity for railtour operators to step in with a few more Saturday excursions to the seaside?!
 

brad465

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Perhaps an opportunity for railtour operators to step in with a few more Saturday excursions to the seaside?!
This August that was the case every Saturday for Kingswear: a railtour group had a 12-13 car diesel (class 47) haul from somewhere different each week (High Wycombe, Bedford and Slough come to mind), a steam loco (including Sir Nigel Gresley on 2-3 occasions) took the train to Kingswear and back to Taunton, then the 47 loco resumed the remainder. The Steam loco was based on the West Somerset railway at the time of the tours so came over from there.
 

Harpo

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Perhaps an opportunity for railtour operators to step in with a few more Saturday excursions to the seaside?!
Charter train prices aren’t going to work for bucket and spade families.
 

Rhydgaled

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I had idea years ago regarding the problem of increased demand on some routes in the summer (for example Swansea/Carmarthen to Tenby). Ideally, what you need is some trains that sit around most of the year and come out only at the busier times, but it's not economic to do that - you need to have the fleet earning it's keep all year round. And then I realised that there are trains (and indeed entire routes) which sit around not doing much at times of lower demand, in the form of heritage railways.

Unfortunately, the issues of low speed limits etc. on heritage railways, PRM regulations etc. are almost insummountable so this will probably never happen in reality but the sort of heritage crossed with national rail operation on the Lymington branch when the last couple of 3CIG units were working it gave a slight glimmer of hope that it might not be completely impossible. What would be needed is a route with a basic Public Service Obligation (PSO) timetable (let's say a train every two hours) that runs throughout the year. In the quiter periods, this would be operated using normal 'modern' stock. At busier times, additional services (worked by heritage stock, such as the 3CIGs in the Lymington example or a heritage DMU (such as the class 121s that Chiltern and ATW used at one point, or even steam) could be run, (making the service up to hourly in the example). Finally, and this is key, when peak season is reached the PSO services would also be operated using heritage stock, freeing up the 'modern' stock to strengthen other national rail services. You could also run just the PSO services (ie. only every 2 hours in our example) with heritage stock at times when the national rail network needs the 'modern' stock but demand isn't sufficient to justify the full hourly heritage service.
 

30907

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FGW as it was then used to run a special called the "Weymouth Wizard", a HST from Bristol to Weymouth on top the existing line's Saturday service. It stopped after 2017 though but if the demand was there should IMO be brought back given how busy the Heart of Wessex line can get in the summer. I imagine barriers to its reinstatement now are line capacity, especially if it clashes with SWR diagrams that have been added to the Yeovil-Westbury section, and GWR having a rolling stock shortage.
There are two summer Saturday extras to and from Weymouth, the second is from Swindon. I would have thought there might be a market on weekdays too.

More generally:
Saturday is already very busy in most area, as The Exile says.

The other market is Monday to Friday during the summer holidays - SE have long used stock that was spare between the peaks (there are peak trains still !). The problem with some routes these days, most notably the Brighton line, is finding a path.
 

JamesT

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I had idea years ago regarding the problem of increased demand on some routes in the summer (for example Swansea/Carmarthen to Tenby). Ideally, what you need is some trains that sit around most of the year and come out only at the busier times, but it's not economic to do that - you need to have the fleet earning it's keep all year round. And then I realised that there are trains (and indeed entire routes) which sit around not doing much at times of lower demand, in the form of heritage railways.

Unfortunately, the issues of low speed limits etc. on heritage railways, PRM regulations etc. are almost insummountable so this will probably never happen in reality but the sort of heritage crossed with national rail operation on the Lymington branch when the last couple of 3CIG units were working it gave a slight glimmer of hope that it might not be completely impossible. What would be needed is a route with a basic Public Service Obligation (PSO) timetable (let's say a train every two hours) that runs throughout the year. In the quiter periods, this would be operated using normal 'modern' stock. At busier times, additional services (worked by heritage stock, such as the 3CIGs in the Lymington example or a heritage DMU (such as the class 121s that Chiltern and ATW used at one point, or even steam) could be run, (making the service up to hourly in the example). Finally, and this is key, when peak season is reached the PSO services would also be operated using heritage stock, freeing up the 'modern' stock to strengthen other national rail services. You could also run just the PSO services (ie. only every 2 hours in our example) with heritage stock at times when the national rail network needs the 'modern' stock but demand isn't sufficient to justify the full hourly heritage service.
Surely the summer season is when heritage railways are most likely to be using their stock?
 

telstarbox

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Southeastern’s summer special trains are a cozy touch, but is there scope for other operators (or whatever they are now GBR is king) to run similar services? Perhaps a Southern service running on the slow lines to Brighton calling at Balham, Streatham Hill and Crystal Palace? Or a Great Eastern service to Clacton calling at East London stations?
From East London there's already a good service to Southend and Leigh which are closer than Clacton, and more geared up for large visitor numbers.
 

Rhydgaled

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Surely the summer season is when heritage railways are most likely to be using their stock?
Yes. My point is that the National Rail network needs more 'modern' units in the summer, but it is not economic to have them sat idle all winter. So, to make use of the extra 'modern' units through the winter, my (likely unworkable in practice) idea is to use the 'modern' units to effectively 'reopen' heritiage lines as part of the National Network. Them in the summer, when the heritiage railways are operating they take over again and release the 'modern' units for summer strengthening on the rest of the National Network.
 

30907

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Yes. My point is that the National Rail network needs more 'modern' units in the summer, but it is not economic to have them sat idle all winter. So, to make use of the extra 'modern' units through the winter, my (likely unworkable in practice) idea is to use the 'modern' units to effectively 'reopen' heritiage lines as part of the National Network. Them in the summer, when the heritiage railways are operating they take over again and release the 'modern' units for summer strengthening on the rest of the National Network.
I think I understand you:
so there would be a NR service from (eg) Kidderminster to Bridgnorth, with accessible rolling stock, NR ticketing etc, which would operate for 10 months of the year (?SX) but be withdrawn in July/August to strengthen other NR routes, and a 100% heritage service (with an accessible coach, that's no issue) operate for those months?
 

Rhydgaled

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I think I understand you:
so there would be a NR service from (eg) Kidderminster to Bridgnorth, with accessible rolling stock, NR ticketing etc, which would operate for 10 months of the year (?SX) but be withdrawn in July/August to strengthen other NR routes, and a 100% heritage service (with an accessible coach, that's no issue) operate for those months?
Something like that yes. Ideally it would be more flexible than a straight '10 months on, two months off' arangement, but I think you understand the general concept of my idea.

As for your question mark for SX, for each route I would set a Public Service Obligation for a minimum service to be provided every day of the year (except Christmas Day). As with National Rail TOCs today, this PSO could be different at weekends to the weekday service if appropriate, but essentially this is about adding some heritage railways to the national network (so running every day is required) while making use of the heritage aspect to help with seasonal demand changes. Some days this minimum service would be provided entirely using NR/GBR accessible rolling stock and NR crews, at other times there would be a mix of NR and heritiage and at still other times it would be 100% heritage. NR ticketing would need to be valid (at least on the workings required by the PSO) year-round too, including on the days when it is a 100% heritiage operation, which is one of the reasons (alongside the issues with volunteer workforces, accessible toilets etc.) I expect it would be too hard to actually implement sadly.
 
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