Motorail timetables

[Jerome]

Hello everyone,

i am searching timetables of Motorail in Great Britain in Winter 1984/1985.(october 1984 - may 1985)
Does anyone have pictures of leaflet or maybe pages of motorail service in BR timetables ?
Thanks a lot.

Good evening

Jerome

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello everyone,

i am searching timetables of Motorail in Great Britain in Winter 1984/1985.(october 1984 - may 1985)
Does anyone have pictures of leaflet or maybe pages of motorail service in BR timetables ?
Thanks a lot.

Good evening

Jerome

Relevant 1980s all line BR timetable is available for sale on here https://www.transportpasttimes.co.uk/ which I think you have those services in it

The adjacent years are for sale :

1980s

Transport Past Times is the site for transport memorabilia and collectables.

www.transportpasttimes.co.uk

and a search on Motorial brings up a 1984 16 page brochure for sale £6 - this may not be winter 84/85 though as you might expect the brochures to be produced ahead of the summer season

Products found matching 'motorail'

Transport Past Times is the site for transport memorabilia and collectables.

www.transportpasttimes.co.uk

 

[Western Sunset]

I might be wrong, but I don't recall the BR passenger timetable including specific motorail services. There might've been a diagrammatic map of services, but not the actual train timings.

 

[WesternLancer]

I might be wrong, but I don't recall the BR passenger timetable including specific motorail services. There might've been a diagrammatic map of services, but not the actual train timings.

That's interesting...I certainly didn't think that might be the case

 

[jfollows]

I might be wrong, but I don't recall the BR passenger timetable including specific motorail services. There might've been a diagrammatic map of services, but not the actual train timings.

Yes, the 1985/86 all line timetable just contains the single page attached, for example.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, the 1985/86 all line timetable just contains the single page attached, for example.

Thanks - so that means the special brochure (I guess like the one I linked to above) contains the vital info

Perhaps @Mollington St can assist

 

[jfollows]

From working timetables for 1984-85 I can see things like
1S54 20:15 TTHO Motorail Newton Abbot to Stirling, Crewe 01L20.5-01L30.5 change loco D595-E595, via Shrewsbury before Crewe, 24 MAY TO 22 SEP for example.
1V59 2200 WFO & SUN Motorail Stirling to Newton Abbot, Crewe 02L31-02L41, 25 MAY TO 23 SEP also change electric to diesel for onward journey via Shrewsbury.

Clearly this particular service didn’t run the following year, from the single page all line timetable extract above. Nor did it run in winter 1984.

L - stop to change locomotive

 

[Rescars]

It's a long while ago, but I have a hazy memory that there was more emphasis on the deadline time for car loading and the time cars were available for collection than actual train departure and arrival times. WTT presumably a better source of information. Would this including shunting car flats etc?

 

[jfollows]

Paddington had EG
1C14 D385 VB 07:30 SO Paddington-St. Austell
1A77 D385 VB 14:55 SO St. Austell-Paddington (19:54)
both FROM 26 MAY TO 22 SEP

VB - vacuum-braked
D385 - timing load

 

[Magdalia]

the 1985/86 all line timetable just contains the single page attached, for example.

The 1984/85 All Line Timetable had a similar map on page 56, but with a few more trains listed:

Bristol-Stirling
London-Newcastle
London-Newton Abbot
London-St Austell
Newton-Abbot-Stirling

All are and vice versa

1H84 also lists the Motorail trains that conveyed passengers as well as cars (trains that only conveyed cars are not regarded as passenger trains):

1S01 TThSO 1115 Euston-Stirling
1S01 SuO 2230 Euston-Stirling

1S54 MWO 0815 Newton Abbot-Stirling
1S54 FO 2005 Newton Abbot-Stirling

1V59 TThO 0925 Stirling-Newton Abbot
1V59 SO 1100 Stirling-Newton Abbot

1M69 MWFO 1130 Stirling-Euston
1M69 SO 22000 Stirling-Euston

All are shown as dated but the actual dates are not given.

 

[jfollows]

1S01 TTHSO was UNTIL 29 SEP
1S01 SuO was UNTIL 23 SEP
1V59 SO was FROM 19 MAY TO 29 SEP
1V59 TO was FROM 22 MAY TO 25 SEP
1V59 THO was FROM 17 MAY TO 27 SEP
1S54 WO was FROM 16 MAY TO 26 SEP
1S54 MO was FROM 21 MAY TO 24 SEP
1S54 FO was FROM 18 MAY TO 28 SEP
1M69 MWFO was FROM 16 MAY TO 28 SEP (2h40 Crewe-Euston)
1M69 SO was UNTIL 29 SEP

anyway, only operating in the summer, so at least for these services there weren’t any for @Jerome

 

[Mollington St]

At Transport Past Times i have checked and i only have in stock the May 1984 and the May 1986 Motorail Special Issues

See the covers below

i have also attached a scan of a page to give you an idea of the info and timings per route etc

 

[Jerome]

Hello,

Thank you WesternLancer !
The Web Shop is great !
I certainly buy some leaflets to complete my collection.

I am trying to found a lot of informations about this particular service.

Thank you also to those who give the numbers of the trains. It is top !
And yes, the BR passenger timetables give few informations about Motorail services.
But the oldest (1960’s, 1970’s) give more details.

If someone is, like me, interested in Motorail Service, I can help too if I had the documents.
(In other countries too !)

If a had another questions about Motorail, I will ask you again.
Thank you all.

Have a nice day !

Jerome.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

Thank you WesternLancer !
The Web Shop is great !
I certainly buy some leaflets to complete my collection.

I am trying to found a lot of informations about this particular service.

Thank you also to those who give the numbers of the trains. It is top !
And yes, the BR passenger timetables give few informations about Motorail services.
But the oldest (1960’s, 1970’s) give more details.

If someone is, like me, interested in Motorail Service, I can help too if I had the documents.
(In other countries too !)

If a had another questions about Motorail, I will ask you again.
Thank you all.

Have a nice day !

Jerome.

Thanks Jerome

I did not notice at first you were contacting from France, a place with a great Motorail tradition

It occurs to me you may be interest in this short film made by British Transport Films (BTF) - BTF was the in house film unit of British Rail making films for both the public and for staff - this one features Motorail.

I have also seen other BTF films from different time periods with short sections of motorail / car carrying services shown in the films - I don't think dedicated films like this one but in short clips in news update type films (for example the BTF series 'Rail report' ) including cars in closed car carrying vans as compared with the open flat wagons shown in the film below

Motorsport tries Motorail - 1969

For more information about BTF see this website (which includes a list of all films)

BTF - British Transport Films

BTF - British Transport Films - Britain's most productive industrial film unit. Although normally associated with railway work, the BTF repertoire extended to all facet's of transport under the British Transport Commission, including London Transport, bus tours, inland waterways, sea ports plus...

nicwhe8.freehostia.com

Welcome to the website dedicated to the well loved 'British Transport Films' (BTF) production unit. Here you will be able to look at details of many of the film unit's productions, read film reviews and view several images from the extensive BTF stills collection.​

 

[Bald Rick]

At Transport Past Times i have checked and i only have in stock the May 1984 and the May 1986 Motorail Special Issues

See the covers below

i have also attached a scan of a page to give you an idea of the info and timings per route etc

Fascinating - especially the prices.

Assuming the prices are from 1986, that is the equivalent of £650 today for a car and two passengers one way for Bristol to Stirling on a Friday night, seated in a first class compartment with a pillow and blanket for comfort. And over £1,000 for a return!

 

[30907]

Fascinating - especially the prices.

Assuming the prices are from 1986, that is the equivalent of £650 today for a car and two passengers one way for Bristol to Stirling on a Friday night, seated in a first class compartment with a pillow and blanket for comfort. And over £1,000 for a return!

Not completely out of line with the remaining services through Germany

 

[Bald Rick]

Not completely out of line with the remaining services through Germany

You can see why the M5/M6 + Days Inn at Gretna / Travelodge Carlisle are popular

 

[Dave W]

Fascinating - especially the prices.

Assuming the prices are from 1986, that is the equivalent of £650 today for a car and two passengers one way for Bristol to Stirling on a Friday night, seated in a first class compartment with a pillow and blanket for comfort. And over £1,000 for a return!

Was just perusing the literature and was going to comment on this. What was patronage like? (obviously not good enough to keep going, but are there any stats regarding the loads on these trains?)

 

[WesternLancer]

Fascinating - especially the prices.

Assuming the prices are from 1986, that is the equivalent of £650 today for a car and two passengers one way for Bristol to Stirling on a Friday night, seated in a first class compartment with a pillow and blanket for comfort. And over £1,000 for a return!

Hard to imagine you’d pay that for overnight without a sleeper.

Seems strange as at that point you would think plenty of surplus mark 3 sleepers available.

 

[Helvellyn]

Seems strange as at that point you would think plenty of surplus mark 3 sleepers avavailable.

I don't think there were any spare Sleepers until the ECML services were withdrawn, so another couple of years. It would have also required all your Motorail vans to be air braked - even the Euston-Stirling service with car flats used vacuum braked Mk 1 FKs in InterCity livery when there were plenty of air braked Mk 2 FKs available.

 

[181]

Assuming the prices are from 1986, that is the equivalent of £650 today for a car and two passengers one way for Bristol to Stirling on a Friday night, seated in a first class compartment with a pillow and blanket for comfort. And over £1,000 for a return!

Was just perusing the literature and was going to comment on this. What was patronage like? (obviously not good enough to keep going, but are there any stats regarding the loads on these trains?)

For what it's worth, my family used Motorail every year until about 1980, and then gave up because it was becoming too expensive. I don't know whether that was because of increased costs of providing the service, or an attempt to maintain income in the face of falling demand, or what.